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| [[File:Seal of the Second Chamber.png|250px|thumb|[[Seal]] of the Second Chamber]]
 
| [[File:Seal of the Second Chamber.png|250px|thumb|[[Seal]] of the Second Chamber]]
 
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| '''[[National Archives]] of the Congressional debates and votes:'''<br />[[National Archives/Chambers/1 One|1. First series]]<br />[[National Archives/Chambers/2 Two|2. Second series]]<br />[[National Archives/Chambers/3 Three|3. Third series]]<br />[[National Archives/Chambers/4 Four|4. Fourth series]]<br />[[National Archives/Chambers/5 Five|5. Fifth series]]<br />[[National Archives/Chambers/6 Six|6. Sixth series]]<br />[[National Archives/Chambers/7 Seven|7. Seventh series]]<br />[[National Archives/Chambers/8 Eight|8. Eighth series]]<br />[[National Archives/Chambers/9 Nine|9. Ninth series]]<br />[[National Archives/Chambers/10 Ten|10. Tenth series]]<br />[[National Archives/Chambers/11 Eleven|11. Eleventh series]]<br />[[National Archives/Chambers/12 Twelve|12. Twelfth series]][[Category:Forum]][[Category:Congress]]
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| '''[[National Archives]] of the Congressional debates and votes:'''<br />[[National Archives/Chambers/1 One|1. First series]]<br />[[National Archives/Chambers/2 Two|2. Second series]]<br />[[National Archives/Chambers/3 Three|3. Third series]]<br />[[National Archives/Chambers/4 Four|4. Fourth series]]<br />[[National Archives/Chambers/5 Five|5. Fifth series]]<br />[[National Archives/Chambers/6 Six|6. Sixth series]]<br />[[National Archives/Chambers/7 Seven|7. Seventh series]]<br />[[National Archives/Chambers/8 Eight|8. Eighth series]]<br />[[National Archives/Chambers/9 Nine|9. Ninth series]]<br />[[National Archives/Chambers/10 Ten|10. Tenth series]]<br />[[National Archives/Chambers/11 Eleven|11. Eleventh series]]<br />[[National Archives/Chambers/12 Twelve|12. Twelfth series]]<br />[[National Archives/Chambers/13 Thirteen|13. Thirteenth series]]<br />[[National Archives/Chambers/14 Fourteen|14. Fourteenth series]][[Category:Forum]][[Category:Congress]]
 
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In [[Lovia]], [[Congress]] is the national legislative body and the most powerful branch of government. The '''Second Chamber''' is one of the two chambers of Congress, located in the [[Capitol]] in [[Downtown]] [[Noble City]], in which the [[Members of the Congress]] vote bills that originated in the [[First Chamber]]. Paradoxically, Lovia does not have a bicameral parliament: there is only one group of MOTCs that both debates and votes the proposals. For the current composition of Congress, see [[2012 First Congress]].
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In [[Lovia]], [[Congress]] is the national legislative body and the most powerful branch of government. The '''Second Chamber''' is one of the two chambers of Congress, located in the [[Capitol]] in [[Downtown]] [[Noble City]], in which the [[Members of the Congress]] vote bills that originated in the [[First Chamber]]. Paradoxically, Lovia does not have a bicameral parliament: there is only one group of MOTCs that both debates and votes the proposals. For the current composition of Congress, see [[2013 Congress]].
   
 
Whereas all national [[citizen]]s may propose bills in the First Chamber, only [[Members of the Congress]] may vote them in the Second Chamber. Article 6 of the [[Constitution]] states that "all Members of the Congress are expected to vote on the motion in the Second Chamber". They have three legal voting options: "pro (in favor of the motion), contra (in opposition to the motion) and abstention (the wish not to vote)." Further more, they "have two weeks’ time to cast their vote in the Second Chamber. Voting may be closed earlier if the required majority is reached. The proposer may also choose to lengthen the voting period."
 
Whereas all national [[citizen]]s may propose bills in the First Chamber, only [[Members of the Congress]] may vote them in the Second Chamber. Article 6 of the [[Constitution]] states that "all Members of the Congress are expected to vote on the motion in the Second Chamber". They have three legal voting options: "pro (in favor of the motion), contra (in opposition to the motion) and abstention (the wish not to vote)." Further more, they "have two weeks’ time to cast their vote in the Second Chamber. Voting may be closed earlier if the required majority is reached. The proposer may also choose to lengthen the voting period."
   
A normal majority ("fifty percent of the valid votes") is required to pass a motion amending the [[Federal Law]]. To vote on [[Constitution]]al [[amendment]]s, a [[special majority]] ("more than two thirds of the valid votes") is required to pass a amendment. The special majority requirement was lowered from three quarters to two thirds in the [[2010 State Reform]] ([[Sixth Amendment]]). All proposals approved by Congress, by the required majority and in due time, must be implemented by the government of Lovia.
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A normal majority ("fifty percent of the valid votes") is required to pass a motion amending the [[Federal Law]]. To vote on [[Constitution]]al [[amendment]]s, a [[special majority]] ("more than two thirds of the valid votes") is required to pass a amendment. The special majority requirement was lowered from three quarters to two thirds in the [[2010 State Reform]] ([[Sixth Amendment]]). All proposals approved by Congress, by the required majority and in due time, must be implemented by the government of Lovia.
 
__TOC__
 
__TOC__
   
== 001. Government ==
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==001. Government==
This is the government proposal, known as the [[Ilava I Government]], that will rule for the duration of the [[2012 First Congress]], unless a dissolution is passed. The proposal includes the [[Speaker of the Congress]] and each ministerial position.
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I propose the following Government, Government Oos Wes Ilava II:
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*[[Prime Minister]]
* [[Prime Minister]]: [[Oos Wes Ilava]] - CCPL
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**[[Oos Wes Ilava]]
* [[Minister of Defence]]: [[Lukas Hoffmann]] - CNP
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*[[Ministry of Food, Agriculture, and Fisheries]]
* [[Minister of Foreign Affairs]]: [[Semyon Breyev]] - ind.
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**[[Charles Alexander Bennett]]
* [[Minister of Finance]]: [[Percival E. Galahad]] - LAP
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*[[Ministry of Commerce]]
* [[Minister of Justice]]: [[Bill An]] - PL
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**[[Dave Leskromento]]
* [[Minister of Health]]: [[James Torres]] - LDP
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*[[Ministry of Culture]]
* [[Minister of Education]]: [[Matthew McComb]] - PL
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**[[Oos Wes Ilava]]
* [[Minister of Culture]]: [[Oos Wes Ilava]] - CCPL
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*[[Ministry of Defense]]
* [[Minister of Labour]]: [[Pierlot McCrooke]] - CPL.nm
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**[[Lukas Hoffmann]]
* [[Minister of Commerce]]: [[Christopher Costello]] - PL
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*[[Ministry of Education and Research]]
* [[Minister of Agriculture]]: [[Jhon Lewis]] - Labour
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**[[William Krosby]]
* [[Minister of Energy and Resources]]: [[Ben Opať]] - MCP
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*[[Ministry of Energy and Resources]]
* [[Minister of Environment]]: [[Ygo August Donia]] - CCPL
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**[[Charles Alexander Bennett]]
* [[Minister of Transportation]]: [[Justin Abrahams]] - Labour
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*[[Ministry of Environment]]
* [[Minister of Tourism and Sport]]: [[Marcus Villanova]] - Labour
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**[[Nicholas Sheraldin]]
* [[Speaker of the Congress]]: [[William Krosby]] - LDP
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*[[Ministry of Family, Youth, and Elderly]]
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**[[Oos Wes Ilava]]
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*[[Ministry of Finance]]
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**[[William Krosby]]
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*[[Ministry of Foreign Affairs]]
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**[[Justin Abrahams]]
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*[[Ministry of Health]]
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**[[Taiyō no Eisei]]
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*[[Ministry of Justice]]
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**[[Dave Leskromento]]
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*[[Ministry of Labour]]
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**[[Marcus Villanova]]
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*[[Ministry of Tourism and Sport]]
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**[[Nicholas Sheraldin]]
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*[[Ministry of Transportation]]
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**[[Jhon Lewis]]
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*[[Speaker of the Congress]]
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**[[Semyon Breyev]]
   
 
===Voting===
 
===Voting===
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====Pro====
 
====Pro====
*{{Pro}} 11 Votes <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 23:48, February 2, 2012 (UTC)
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*{{Pro}} 13 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 07:54, February 7, 2013 (UTC) (CCPL - OSB)
*{{Pro}} 14 votes [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 23:53, February 2, 2012 (UTC)
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*{{Pro}} 4 votes. [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 08:31, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
*{{Pro}} 8 Votes [[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]] 00:09, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
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*{{Pro}} 8 votes. But we should have the people with two posts use another character for their second post. I'll probably keep Galahad on Finance like last year. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 12:01, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
*{{Pro}} 17 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 09:08, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
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*{{Pro}} 7 votes. fantastic stuff, here's to a new year of success [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 12:22, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
*{{Pro}} 3 votes [[User:Pierlot|Pierlot McCrooke]] 11:07, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
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*{{pro}} 4 votes. [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] ([[User talk:Wabba The I|talk]]) 17:22, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
*{{Pro}}<span style="font-style: normal; "> 11 Votes [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|35px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 12:39, February 3, 2012 (UTC)</span>
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*{{Pro}} 3 votes. Fantastic. --[[User:Quarantine Zone|Quarantine Zone]] ([[User talk:Quarantine Zone|talk]]) 17:56, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
*{{Pro}} 5 votes [[Christopher Costello|<font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello</font>]] <sup>([[User:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi</font>]] • [[User_talk:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Chat</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>What's up</font>]])</sup> 15:30, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
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*<del>{{pro}} 5 votes. OK, I'll support this. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 18:53, February 7, 2013 (UTC)</del>
*{{Pro}} 5 votes [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] 16:30, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
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*{{Pro}} 6 votes (Read comments made by Hoffmann, totally correct. The users, and while I'm against QZ as health minister (i'm proud hes active), are inactive and wouldn't be able to fufill there jobs) [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 21:49, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
*{{Pro}} 5 votes --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 16:40, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
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*{{Pro}} 2 votes. [[User:Daembrales|Daembrales]] ([[User talk:Daembrales|talk]]) 23:00, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
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*{{Pro}} 5 votes. [[User:-Sunkist-|-Sunkist-]] ([[User talk:-Sunkist-|talk]]) 00:08, February 8, 2013 (UTC)
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*{{Pro}} 9 votes '''[[User:Happy65|<font color="Teal"> Happy65 </font>]]''' <sup> '''[[User talk:Happy65|<font color="Aqua"> Talk</font>]] [[Conservative Nationalist Party|CNP]] '''</sup>''' [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px]]''' 07:12, February 8, 2013 (UTC)
   
 
====Contra====
 
====Contra====
*{{Contra}} 1 vote (Ron Nash) ''I opppose a governemnt with conservatives'' [[User:Pierlot|Pierlot McCrooke]] 11:07, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
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*{{contra}} - Oh, I see how it is. - 5 votes <span style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:90%;">— [[Christopher_Costello|<font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello</font>]] <sup>([[User:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi</font>]] • [[User_talk:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Chat</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>What's up</font>]])</sup></span> 21:29, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
*{{contra}} 1 vote [[Joshua Katz]], 16:41, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
 
*...
 
   
====Abstention====
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====Abstain====
*...
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*{{Abstention}} 1 vote. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 07:54, February 7, 2013 (UTC) (RTP)
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*{{Abstention}} 5 votes. Horton is right. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 19:01, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
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*{{Abstention}} 2 votes .[[User:Granero|Granero]] ([[User talk:Granero|talk]]) 01:06, February 8, 2013 (UTC)
 
*...
 
*...
   
{{Accepted}} By a 79% majority! <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 21:09, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
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{{Accepted}} The Ilava II Government is now in power. :D <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 00:22, February 8, 2013 (UTC)
   
===Comments===
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=== Comments ===
What I learned today: Me + Oos + krosby + Kurnian = half of congress [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 10:55, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
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Users like Granero and Daembrales have all shown interest in having a ministry position, so we should include them. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 13:27, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
:Gotta take advantage of that è :P --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 11:25, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
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:To a degree I do agree however I think that the lack of year round activity and lack of a well developed position known to the citizens of the wikia makes it hard for us to confidently include them. I think a good idea would be to have a reshuffle of the government in maybe 3, 4 or 6 months and review the positions that they have shown interest in and see if they: a) are active enough to assume positions and b) have shown attempts to develop that area of interest in lovia. Personally I think a review in three months would be good and would hardly be unfair. We address concerns and ensure that if they are properly addressed they get the positions they deserve. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 14:33, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
I know right :D By the way why is education now education and science again? all of the departments use science to try and improve their ministries. [[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]] 14:30, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
 
:It will support science in the genericity (in het algemeen in dutch) [[User:Pierlot|Pierlot McCrooke]] 14:35, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
 
::I understand but it would be easier just to call it the minitry of education. [[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]] 14:57, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
 
:::Doesn't matter. In Lovia we can use an abbreviation like "MES" (ministry /of/ education /and/ science). Anyway, we need to have a place for science in a ministery and in the Netherlands it's very common to group it with education. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 16:28, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
 
@Marcus: Could be useful, except your political views are all totally different. :P --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 16:42, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
Pikapi changed it back, because he thought you can't change active proposals. That is true, but in this case you can, because name has little meaning. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 21:10, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
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:::When starts it? [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] ([[User talk:Wabba The I|talk]]) 17:22, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
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::::Then again it might be better to include more users than having a select few with two or more (Oos being the exception). And going on the year round activity, Granero and Pikapi have been as active as Sunkist, yet they have none and he has two. I would like to see further inclusion now, and in a few monts when we do the review we can reshuffle the ministries of less active users. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 18:31, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
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:::::The few who have two are normally the ones who were unchallenged in the positions they chose or whose positions were only challenged by other people with multiple positions. It is impossible to include users in positions that they want when that position they want is occupied by a person with that position only. This is the problem you do not seem to see. On the matter of Sunkist, Sunkist has been a lot more active than Granero and Pikapi (who didn't even show interest in a position) recently (over the past three months) and you fail to also consider he was almost completely unchallenged for those positions. This is inclusion as far as we can get it with the people who want these positions. Too many people want the same positions, we can't please everyone so we've chosen the people we think are best. I'd hope you'd agree rather than bring up points that have been repeatedly addressed. I'm glad you're on board for the review though, I think that if we have tri-monthly reviews we can keep government active and reward users with commitment and interest, it's good to have you on board for that. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 19:20, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
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::::::We could just give Daembrales and Granero one of the relatively unchallenged positions. <strike>Though I would still like to review the Health position</strike> (nah, his Bismarck ideas are a step in the right direction, so it's fine) [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 19:30, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
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:::::::We don't want to give them a position they don't want and ask them to be responsible for it, that's unfair on both them and the people who take and interest too. Glad you've come around, the Bismarck model is a model for universal healthcare, he's on our side with this, truly. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 21:48, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
   
Well the point i was making was a good and bad one. A good one beacuse we invest our power in the more advanced and experienced users, who are also more active. Thorugh the two elections i've seen the Younger at the time inactive users only have maybe 7 seats but now have let's say 9 or 10, Movin' on Up!!! Bad cuse we might also invest too much power in too little users. [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 22:01, February 3, 2012 (UTC)
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I'm okay with not having a post. =) I think that there are better candidates than me, as i am not too active and not too experienced either. However, i would appreciate a ministry if someone thinks i am fit for the job. :D [[User:Daembrales|Daembrales]] ([[User talk:Daembrales|talk]]) 23:00, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
   
== 002. Educational Reform Act (Part I) ==
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@Daembrales - Remember you have multiple congresspersons, (2 i think) vote with them [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 23:10, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
<big>The 2012 Educational Reform Act - (Part I)</big><br />
 
An act requiring the education of Lovia to be reformed and for the [[SKA|Standard Knowledge Assessment]] to be implemented as the official state-sponsored and subsidized test.
 
* The theories of creationism and evolution will only be taught with permission from the parent/legal guardian.
 
* The SKA may not include any topics about evolution or creationism.
 
* If a school's average grades are below 80 (C-F), the school must offer tutoring every morning and afternoon, unless excused by a reasonable reason from a parent/legal guardian.
 
* Students may choose to be absent for religious holidays, including Passover, Easter, Chinese/Lunar New Year, Christmas, Kwanzaa, Hanukkah, etc. They will not be marked absent. Any missing schoolwork will not be required to be turned in, or the due date will be delayed.
 
=== Voting ===
 
{{Voting}}
 
==== Pro ====
 
*{{Pro}} - 3 votes - -- [[Bill An]] 05:21, February 5, 2012 (UTC)
 
*{{Pro}} - For our children's right to propaganda would be great too! [[Lee Feng]] 05:21, February 5, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
==== Contra ====
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@Pikapi - You didn't sign up for any ministries. Even if you are active, a major party head, and former Minister of Commerce, you didn't sign up for anything :/
*{{Contra}} 8 Votes - please fix the thing, write it more as a law and make things less vague then propose it to the second chamber again. [[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]] 10:26, February 5, 2012 (UTC)
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@Horton - A lot of Americans don't support universal healthcare at all. I just don't want taxes funding things like gender switches and what not. For legitimate medical treatment it makes sense to pay for people, but when it's something like that, I don't see a need for others to pay for it. --[[User:Quarantine Zone|Quarantine Zone]] ([[User talk:Quarantine Zone|talk]]) 23:47, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
*{{Contra}} (4 votes). This law is against reasonable principles. The part about the telling of thew theories is possibly illegal. Children should be not withheld information due to their parents [[User:Pierlot|Pierlot McCrooke]] 11:26, February 5, 2012 (UTC)
 
*{{Contra}} 14 votes - It's just random school related laws, like why? [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 12:52, February 5, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
==== Abstention ====
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Sunkist seems to prefer simply the name "Ministry of Agriculture". Should we continue using that name or use the new longer name, or perhaps a compromise between the two as simply "Food and Agriculture"? <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 02:21, February 8, 2013 (UTC)
*{{abstain}} 17 votes --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 09:02, February 5, 2012 (UTC) still too vague: is this just a standardized test or really an entire school program?
 
*{{abstain}} 4 votes --[[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] 11:05, February 5, 2012 (UTC)
 
*{{abstain}} 11 votes <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 13:23, February 5, 2012 (UTC) not fleshed out enough. edit: Pierlot's point is very good.
 
*{{abstain}} I oppose the teaching of creationism, 'religious holidays' must be better defined, the SKA testing looks inhumane, and I have no idea what it actually is. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 14:49, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
=== Comment ===
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Should or shouldn't separate people be used for separate ministries (e.g. Nicholas Sheraldin for Minister of Environment, Levi Straszev for Minister of Tourism and Sport)? [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 02:58, February 8, 2013 (UTC)
   
Another, more amusing, flaw just occurred to me. When I was young and less responsible than I am now, I would quite happily have claimed to be a member of every religion on the planet to get days off school. And I'm pretty sure that any student with real dedication could find a religious holiday for every day of the year. :D --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 19:16, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
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Yes, but you get to decide. You could even use one of George's or Viva's users. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 03:22, February 8, 2013 (UTC)
   
== 006. Settlement Act Addition ==
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Okay. Should a page [[Ilava II Government]] be created, and the ministers be listed there? [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 03:41, February 8, 2013 (UTC)
The addition is as followed (also note: this is how is was done when the smart expereniced users were in charge so yeah it's actually for the better of Lovia)
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:Eventually :P --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 06:10, February 8, 2013 (UTC)
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:Why not yet? :P [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 07:18, February 8, 2013 (UTC)
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::@ Quarantine Zone- Are boob jobs and sex changes medical necessities? No, so we should not include those in any law. You are right in that I'd like to fund our healthcare through taxes, but we need limits. Cosmetic changes for vanity purposes should not be covered. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 14:05, February 8, 2013 (UTC)  
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== SCJ ==
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This is where the supreme court judges shall be elected.
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===Kevin Madison (Happy65)===
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*{{Pro}} 9 votes '''[[User:Happy65|<font color="Teal"> Happy65 </font>]]''' <sup> '''[[User talk:Happy65|<font color="Aqua"> Talk</font>]] [[Conservative Nationalist Party|CNP]] '''</sup>''' [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px]]''' 11:05, February 17, 2013 (UTC)
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*{{Pro}} 3 votes [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 11:46, February 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 1 vote [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 14:21, February 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 3 votes Wabba isn't going to win, and I'm voting for you over Ismagiloff --[[User:Quarantine Zone|Quarantine Zone]] ([[User talk:Quarantine Zone|talk]]) 03:06, February 24, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 4 votes [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 13:59, February 25, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
===Ygo August Donia (TMV)===
  +
* {{pro}} 7 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 06:14, February 22, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
===Arthur Ismagiloff (Semyon)===
  +
*{{Pro}} 2 votes [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 11:46, February 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 3 votes [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 14:21, February 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
**I would vote Pro, but in character, I don't think this guy has enough experience. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 13:41, February 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 5 votes [[User:-Sunkist-|-Sunkist-]] ([[User talk:-Sunkist-|talk]]) 05:26, February 22, 2013 (UTC)
  +
* {{pro}} 7 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 06:14, February 22, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
===Victor Veldhoven (GP)===
  +
*{{Pro}} 2 votes <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 13:41, February 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 1 vote [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 14:21, February 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 4 votes [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 19:07, February 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 2 votes [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 13:59, February 25, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
===Ucchi Kirishima (QZ/CDP)===
  +
  +
  +
===Owen Stanton (Wabba The I)===
  +
*<strike>{{pro}} 4 votes [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] ([[User talk:Wabba The I|talk]]) 17:34, February 17, 2013 (UTC)</strike>
  +
*{{pro}} 3 votes. [[User:Nathan of Fleffenstool|Nathan of Fleffenstool]] ([[User talk:Nathan of Fleffenstool|talk]]) 23:55, February 21, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
  +
===Samantha Brown (TimeMaster)===
  +
*{{Pro}} 2 votes [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 11:46, February 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 6 votes <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 13:41, February 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 1 vote [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 14:21, February 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 2 votes [[User:Daembrales|Daembrales]] ([[User talk:Daembrales|talk]]) 03:25, February 18, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{pro}} 4 votes [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] ([[User talk:Wabba The I|talk]]) 11:19, February 24, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 2 votes. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 13:59, February 25, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
'''AS IT IS NOW THE 1ST OF MARCH, THE SCJ VOTING IS CLOSED. THE NEW SUPREME JUDGES ARE KEVIN MADISON (20 VOTES), ARTHUR ISMAGILOFF (17 VOTES) AND SAMANTHA BROWN (17 VOTES)'''
  +
  +
'''Ministry of Justice. '''
  +
  +
== 004. Marriage Act: 2013 Rewrite ==
  +
As a concerned Lovian, I propose to change our Marriage Act in subtle ways to make it more open-minded. Lovians - progressives and conservatives alike - are open-minded people, who care deeply about liberty, but also equality, justice, and harmonious living. I found that the Marriage Act was well-written, but did not account for a few things, and had a few very old-fashioned and liberty-restricting elements.
  +
  +
The rewrite I propose is not a radical overhaul. My own politics are those of radical overhaul, but with this proposal, I just want to bring minor, beneficial change to Lovia. I hope it shows I am serious about politics, and that I care about coalitions, alliances, and goodwill in politics.
  +
  +
The original text can be found in the [[Federal Law]].
  +
  +
=== Proposed version Marriage Act ===
  +
# Marriage is an understanding between two adult people, referred to as parties, who voluntarily agree to take up certain rights and duties.
  +
## The spouses have the duty to live in harmony with each other, offering each other respect, affection, consolation, and care and treating each other in fairness.
  +
## The spouses have the duty to communicate with each other and make informal agreements concerning both the personal and professional including work, the household, sex, parenting, and finances, and to verbally resolve any conflicts. Considering the possibility that the spouses cannot come to an agreement on their own terms, it is the duty of both spouses to counsel for advice from a third party.
  +
## The spouses have the right to retain their autonomy within their marriage including the right to choose and perform the profession of their liking, the right to keep personal finances, and the right to individually see and meet people.
  +
## The spouses share the responsibility to take care of their children or others in their custody as well as of their possessions and properties.
  +
### Both spouses share the liability to all expenses made for the benefit of the spouses’ child or children, which can be proven to be essential to the well being of the child.
  +
### While the spouses have the right to make any informal or formal arrangement as to whom pays what, the law can enforce the shared liability of expenses of the above-described type in the case that conflict arises and the existing arrangement is fundamentally unfair to either or both spouses.
  +
## Each spouse must bear the marital burdens in accordance to his or her capital and provide the partner with vitals.
  +
# Marriage can only be solemnized if all of the following conditions are met:
  +
## Each of the parties is at least 18 years old, or 16 given that the parents or custodians of the less than 18-year-old party fully consent with the marriage;
  +
## Each of the parties agrees with the marriage on a voluntary basis;
  +
## None of the parties is already in a standing marriage under Lovian law or under similar law in the country where the marriage was carried out;
  +
## The parties are not genetically related in the first or second degree ruling out marriages between parents and children, brothers and/or sisters, aunts and/or uncles, and nephews and/or nieces, and cousins.
  +
# The solemnization of a marriage is carried out in public before a representative of the law.
  +
## A representative of the law is the Governor of the State in which the marriage is solemnized, a person appointed by that Governor, or any person who is in public service in the federal or state government.
  +
## No representative of the law may refuse to solemnize a marriage if all the legal conditions are met, unless he or she conscientiously objects to the solemnization, in which case he or she shall report his objections to a Deputy Governor or another representative of the law who must then contact the parties to arrange for solemnization to take place under his or her supervision. The government is legally bound to solemnize any marriage that conforms to the demands set forth by the law.
  +
## The parties sign a marriage contract at the public solemnization agreeing to the conditions laid out by the law. The representative of the law acts as a witness and validates the contract by signing it as well.
  +
# A marriage is considered terminated in each one of the following cases:
  +
## If the marriage is proven to not have been legally solemnized;
  +
## If one of the spouses obtains a cancellation of the marriage contract;
  +
### A spouse can cancel a marriage through a lawsuit if he or she proves that the other spouse has neglected his or her duties as a spouse;
  +
#### In this case, the neglecting spouse can be sanctioned to provide financial support to the neglected spouse.
  +
#### In this case, the judge must decide upon an arrangement concerning raising the spouses’ child or children, taking into account the opinions and wishes of both spouses as well as of the children concerned.
  +
##### Unless one of the spouses is considered an immediate threat to the health and security of a child, every person has the right to have regular contact and communication with his or her child.
  +
##### Every arrangement decided upon by a judge must take into account the health, security, and happiness of the child and the spouses’ ability to provide for those.
  +
## If both spouses agree upon the termination of their marriage, effectively cancelling the marriage contract in the presence of a representative of the law.
  +
## Upon the death of one of the spouses, or both, but only if the remaining spouse requests the cancellation.
  +
## One year after one of the spouses has been reported as missing and has not been found, but only if the remaining spouse requests the cancellation.
  +
  +
=== Proposed changes ===
  +
In the proposed version, some of the terminology has been changed, either to increase uniformity and clarity, or to reflect a more open-minded spirit. No mention is made of homosexuality, though: our law already allows for same-sex marriage.
  +
  +
The duties and rights of married people change, so that they are no longer obliged to actually live together (it is possible to be married harmoniously and live in separate places) and are no longer legally obliged to be sexually faithful to each other. Instead, extra emphasis is put on the emotional duties of married couples. Also expanded is the section on how to resolve marriage conflicts, including those with children.
  +
  +
The age at which marriage can be solemnized is lowered to 16, given the parents' consent.
  +
  +
The solemnization is simplified. A couple in want of a marriage only needs a representative of the law, more broadly defined now: the governor, someone appointed by him/her, or anyone else representing Lovian government. The "announcement" period is no longer needed.
  +
  +
The law explicitly states that "No representative of the law may refuse to solemnize a marriage if all the legal conditions are met". At the urging of Ooswesthoesbes, a provision is included to allow for conscientious objection by the representative of the law. A simple but efficient procedure is included to arrange for such cases.
  +
  +
Termination of the marriage contract by a single party, through a lawsuit, is rewritten. Provisions are included on what the judge can decide, financially and in the matter of children. The stress is on making harmonious arrangements and looking after the child's interests. A divorce should not be a war, and the child should never be its victim.
  +
  +
Thank you for your consideration. [[User:Punarbhava|Punarbhava]] ([[User talk:Punarbhava|talk]]) 17:43, February 17, 2013 (UTC)
   
*# The current existing Cities are:
 
*## [[Newhaven]] and [[Noble City]]
 
*# The current existing Towns are:
 
*## [[Sofasi]] and [[Hurbanova]]
 
*# The current existing Neighborhoods are:
 
*## [[Artista]], [[Bayside]], [[Citizen Corner]], [[Downtown]], [[Industrial Park]], [[King's Gardens]], [[Little Europe]], [[Little Frisco]], [[Long Road]], [[Mandarin Village]], [[New Town]], [[Old Harbor]], [[The Mall]], [[Trading Quarter]], [[Transcity]], [[Abby Springs]], [[Malipa]], [[Newhaven (neighborhood)]], [[Old Port]], [[Pines]], [[Canterbury]], [[Drake Town]], [[Hightech Valley]], [[Hurket-on-Kings]], [[Millstreet]], [[Newport]], [[Nicholasville]], [[Orange Gardens]], [[Muza]]
 
*# The current existing Hamlets are:
 
*## [[Beaverwick]], [[Clave Rock]], [[East Hills]], [[Plains]]
 
*# The current existing Villages are:
 
*## [[Adoha]], [[Charleston]], [[Kinley]], [[Portland]], [[Train Village]], [[Novosevensk]].
 
 
=== Voting ===
 
=== Voting ===
{{Voting}}
 
 
==== Pro ====
 
==== Pro ====
*{{Pro}} &ndash; 14 votes [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 14:41, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
+
* {{pro}} 13 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 15:14, March 5, 2013 (UTC) (CCPL - OSB)
* Weak {{pro}} &ndash; 6 votes. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 14:45, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
+
* {{pro}} 2 votes [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] ([[User talk:Wabba The I|talk]]) 17:33, March 5, 2013 (UTC)
* {{pro}} &ndash; 8 Votes - [[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]] 15:35, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
+
* {{Pro}} 6 votes [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 21:21, March 5, 2013 (UTC) (a bill written by a progressive, supported mostly by a christian conservative. Seems like Pun has found some good fame in Lovia :D great job!!! [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 21:21, March 5, 2013 (UTC))
* <s>{{pro}} &ndash; 17 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 15:43, February 11, 2012 (UTC)</s>
+
* {{pro}} 8 votes <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 21:56, March 5, 2013 (UTC)
* {{pro}} (4 votes) to approving Sjorkskingma's version. --{{User:Jeffwang16/sig}} 16:14, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
+
* {{Pro}} 3 votes - It's not that I particularly like the law, but it's a lot better than the old one, so I'm voting pro.--[[User:Quarantine Zone|Quarantine Zone]] ([[User talk:Quarantine Zone|talk]]) 22:58, March 5, 2013 (UTC)
  +
* {{Pro}} 4 votes [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 02:37, March 6, 2013 (UTC)
  +
* {{pro}} 3 votes. [[User:Bart K|Bart K]] ([[User talk:Bart K|talk]]) 08:31, March 6, 2013 (UTC)
  +
* {{pro}} 7 votes - The first bill of the new government, let's keep on moving! - [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 08:52, March 6, 2013 (UTC)
  +
* {{Pro}} 5 Votes [[User:-Sunkist-|-Sunkist-]] ([[User talk:-Sunkist-|talk]]) 02:40, March 7, 2013 (UTC)
  +
* {{pro}} 2 votes [[User:Daembrales|Daembrales]] ([[User talk:Daembrales|talk]]) 18:05, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
   
 
==== Contra ====
 
==== Contra ====
*...
+
* {{contra}} 1 vote. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 15:14, March 5, 2013 (UTC) (RTP)
*...
+
* {{contra}} 2 votes [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] ([[User talk:Wabba The I|talk]]) 17:33, March 5, 2013 (UTC)
*...
+
* {{contra}} 3 votes [[File:Flag of the Hurian Federation.png|30px|border]] [[User:Vivaporius|Vivaporius]]: <small>"[[User talk:Vivaporius|I don't need a slogan]]"</small> 02:41, March 6, 2013 (UTC)
  +
* ...
   
 
==== Abstention ====
 
==== Abstention ====
*{{abstention}} 11 votes - not as an addition to the settlement act. Only a recognition of existing localities. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 15:57, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{abstention}} (4 votes) [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 17:56, March 5, 2013 (UTC)
* {{abstention}} 17 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 17:06, February 11, 2012 (UTC) I fully agree with TM, we need a recognition of Plains, not an addition to the law.
+
* {{abstention}} 1 votes. [[User:Bart K|Bart K]] ([[User talk:Bart K|talk]]) 08:31, March 6, 2013 (UTC)
* {{abstain}} (5 votes) If we want Plains to become official, we recognize it in the vote below. We don't need an unnecessary addition to the settlement act. — [[Christopher Costello|<font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello</font>]] <sup>([[User:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi</font>]] • [[User_talk:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Chat</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>What's up</font>]])</sup> 17:32, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
+
* ...
   
=== Comment ===
+
{{Accepted}} With a 51% majority. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 07:47, March 7, 2013 (UTC)
Fine, would you two be open to making a National Congressperson Order but just for Cities and Hamlets and such? It would just keep things clarified, which is all I want. [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 17:23, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
==007. Recognition of Plains ==
+
==== Comments ====
I find it ridiculous that we have something important that we all agree on, the recognition of Plains as a hamlet, but a really small point causes deadlock. (Deja vu anyone?) So, let's at least pass this, and argue over the rest later on:
+
:Thank you, Lovians! [[User:Punarbhava|Punarbhava]] ([[User talk:Punarbhava|talk]]) 09:50, March 7, 2013 (UTC)
   
:''Congress recognizes Plains as a hamlet located in the north of Asian Island''
+
==007. Voting Rights==
  +
This since we're adding to the Constitution must have at least <del>75%</del> 66% a tall, tall order. But I think we have enough general approval for this no? Within it we secure the right to vote for those 18 or Older, and with approval of governors (extending state's rights and devolution) to 16 in statewide elections. We also protect minorities in their right to vote and the right to exercise that right without interference.
  +
#Any Lovian citizen aged 18 or older may exercise their right to vote in an election.
  +
##The citizen must file registration for voting with the State Government to be allowed to vote.
  +
###Registration must be filed at least two weeks before an election is held.
  +
#A state may set the voting age limit for statewide elections to either the age of 16, 17, or 18, according to the preference of the state.
  +
#No citizen may be barred from voting on grounds of their gender, sexual orientation, race, personal beliefs, or religious background.
  +
##Infringement of voting rights is a felony, punishable by a minimum of a 10,000 dollar fine.
  +
###The Supreme Court may prescribe a greater punishment depending on the severity of the crime.
  +
##The voting rights of citizens can be removed if they are deemed unfit by way of a Supreme Court order.
  +
##Electioneering is allowed, but only 30 meters or more away from the location where a voter casts a ballot.
  +
###Breaking this law once leads to a 1000 dollar fine. Breaking it more than once leads to a minimum prison sentence of three days and a 3000 dollar fine.
  +
####The Supreme Court may prescribe a greater punishment depending on the severity of the crime.
   
--[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 17:17, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
+
===Voting===
  +
====Pro====
  +
*{{Pro}} 6 votes [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 15:14, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*<s>{{Pro}} 8 votes on the condition that it is in Article 2. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 15:46, March 16, 2013 (UTC)</s>
  +
* {{Pro}} 13 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 18:05, March 16, 2013 (UTC) (CCPL - OSB): I'd prefer Article 5, but I'm not too bothered about it either.
  +
*{{pro}} 5 votes. Seems ok. :) --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 18:08, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 8 votes [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 18:22, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{pro}} 4 votes [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] ([[User talk:Wabba The I|talk]]) 18:55, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
**Is there anything changed? [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] ([[User talk:Wabba The I|talk]]) 18:55, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 4 votes [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 19:49, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 3 votes, and I really don't care what Article it's added to. --[[User:Quarantine Zone|Quarantine Zone]] ([[User talk:Quarantine Zone|talk]]) 17:57, March 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 9 votes. '''[[User:Happy65|<font color="Teal"> Happy65 </font>]]''' <sup> '''[[User talk:Happy65|<font color="Aqua"> Talk</font>]] [[Conservative Nationalist Party|CNP]] '''</sup>''' [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px]]''' 19:32, March 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 7 votes - hey hey hey! I think this is passed :D [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 21:40, March 17, 2013 (UTC)
   
===Pro===
+
====Contra====
*{{pro}} - 6 votes, --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 17:17, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{Contra}} 1 vote. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 18:05, March 16, 2013 (UTC) RTP: Women should be excluded from voting rights.
*{{pro}} - 5 votes, [[Christopher Costello|<font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello</font>]] <sup>([[User:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi</font>]] [[User_talk:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Chat</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>What's up</font>]])</sup> 17:24, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{Contra}} 5 votes. "The voting rights of citizens can be removed if they are deemed unfit by way of a Supreme Court order." And states should be able to set voting age at any rage, it be under 18 or over 18. [[User:-Sunkist-|-Sunkist-]] ([[User talk:-Sunkist-|talk]]) 21:25, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
*{{pro}} 17 votes --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 17:39, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 
*{{pro}} 11 votes sounds good. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 18:10, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 
*{{pro}} 4 votes --[[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] 18:20, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 
*{{pro}} - 8 votes - [[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]] 20:21, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 
{{accepted}} with a 51% majority, in just over three hours. Not bad. :) --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 21:49, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
===Contra===
+
====Abstain====
===Abstention===
+
*{{Abstain}} 8 votes My condition was not followed, so I will support the later proposed repeal. The proposal was never passed since I only voted Pro on my condition. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 20:13, March 25, 2013 (UTC)
*{{abstain}} (14 Votes) Read perivous vote comment above ^^^^ i think we can find a comprimise there. --[[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 17:31, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{abstain}} 2 votes - not sure what is going on here so ill follow tm [[User:Daembrales|Daembrales]] ([[User talk:Daembrales|talk]]) 18:05, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
:*Perhaps, but I think it's unnecessary.
 
:*No just willy-nilly approving new settlements and not even putting it in a law book in unnecessary. a NSO i needed and will be approved. [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 18:13, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 
:*If it's needed, then how come we've done fine without it before? We can just recognize the existing municipalities and localities, like before, periodically. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 18:15, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 
:*IDk i find it quite uncivilized =P, idk why there should be oppiosition to this, it just helps people, at the most it dosen't do harm just good. [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 18:18, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 
:*Probably because it's like the Congressional Journal, which in theory is helpful but turned out to be not that helpful. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 18:24, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 
:*Marcus, why don't you at least vote pro for this, so we can make Plains official? Then we can consider your plan afterwards. :) --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 19:07, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 
:*I'm not saying no to this, Like first we adopt the outline and then fill it in with plains and other settlements. [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 19:32, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 
:*There is no need for an outline (we have the settlement act and lists in several places, NO NEED), and what's wrong with first approving plains, and then adopting the outline? <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 19:34, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 
:*Uhhh Wait so can we then approve the NSO after this? [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 19:38, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 
:*Depends if it gets the required support. But possibly. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 19:44, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 
:*Well I support Plains, but the NSO also needs to pass too. I would also like to propose a settlement after the NSO passes, I think it promotes new settlements and boosts the lovian population. [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 19:48, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
==008. Eleventh Amendment - Judicial Reform==
+
{{Declined}} Withdrawn. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 13:47, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
=== Article 9 ===
 
'''Article 9''' – Supreme Court Trials
 
# The Supreme Court is an independent institution and the nation's only and supreme judicial organ, led by '''three''' Supreme Court Judges.
 
# A lawsuit is a civil or public action brought before a court of law in which a plaintiff, a party who claims to have received damages from a defendant's actions, seeks a legal or equitable remedy, from the defendant who is required to respond to the plaintiff's complaint.
 
# A lawsuit can be opened by a plaintiff or a public plaintiff.
 
## Any person in Lovia may be a plaintiff in a lawsuit.
 
## A public plaintiff is a representative of the federal government or any institution of it or any other level of administration in Lovia.
 
### The federal attorney is the public plaintiff representing the federal government, the entire population or any other administrative institution of the federal level in court. He or she is appointed by the Minister of Justice.
 
# A defendant is the party accused by the plaintiff.
 
## A public defendant has the same status as a public plaintiff.
 
# '''The Judges, plaintiff and defendent must all be different people. If one of Judges are involved in the case, he/she must resign and a replacement be nominated.'''
 
# Both parties may opt to be represented in court by a lawyer.
 
# Every lawsuit before the Supreme Court must proceed in this manner and order:
 
## The plaintiff opens the lawsuit.
 
### The plaintiff makes an accusation and names the defendant in the lawsuit.
 
### The plaintiff may make a demand. This can be a period of imprisonment, a fine or/and any other punishment not contradicting the laws of Lovia.
 
## The Supreme Court Judges must investigate the accusation. They may find the accusation not suited for Supreme Court; that is when the accusations made are in no way a violation of the law.
 
## The Supreme Court must notify the defendant that he or she is accused in court.
 
## The Supreme Court Judges must read out the case, including accusations and demands.
 
## The plaintiff's party must speak before court in order to convince the Supreme Court Judges of the truthfulness of the made claims. He or she may bring forward witnesses, that can be asked questions directly relating to the accusations, and/or evidence material. He or she may ask the defendant's party questions directly relating to the accusations.
 
## The defendant's party may speak before court. The defendant or his or her lawyer may plea guilty to the accusations, or unguilty. He or she may also try to convince the Supreme Court Judges of extenuating circumstances. The defendant is free to bring forward witnesses and evidence, both directly relating to the accusations or to the extenuating circumstances.
 
## The Supreme Court Judges must consider both pleas thorougly and by interpreting the laws of Lovia.
 
## The plaintiff's party may demand a second round, for which the same rules account.
 
## The defendant's party may demand a second round, for which the same rules account, but only if the plaintiff's party has made use of their second round.
 
## The Supreme Court Judges must consider the entirity of the lawsuit. The Judges must, within two week's time since the last plea, come to a conclusion. They may conclude:
 
### That the defendant is guilty of the accusations, or of a part of the accusations;
 
### That the defendant is not guilty of any accusations.
 
##'''All Judges must agree on the conclusion, except in the following circumstances:'''
 
###'''One of the Judges does not make an edit for a full week. In this situation, the agreement of the two remaining Judges will suffice.'''
 
###'''The Judges disagree completely over the verdict to give. In this case, the Judges must announce their inability to judge the case and stand down. Three new Judges must be appointed and continue with the case.'''
 
## If the Supreme Court Judges find the defendant guilty, he or she may choose to sentence the defendant, by means of:
 
### A period of imprisonment in a federal penitentiary;
 
### A fine;
 
### Any other sentence, including penal labor or contributions to Lovian society.
 
## All sentences issued by the Supreme Court:
 
### Must be in agreement with the laws of Lovia;
 
### Must be in proportion to the violation;
 
### Must respect the personal integrity of the individual; therefore death penalty, corporal punishment and inhumane forms of humiliation are prohibited.
 
#<del>The Supreme Court Judge is appointed by the Federal Secretary of Justice. This appointment must be confirmed by Congress, by a normal majority.</del>
 
#'''Potential candidates for the position of Supreme Court Judges must give their names to the Minister for Justice, who will officially announce the candidacies in Congress.'''
 
##'''The three candidates that receive the most votes, after a voting period of two weeks, will become Judges.'''
 
##'''Not more than one candidate may stand from each political party.'''
 
## The term of '''each''' Supreme Court Judge <del>does not necessarily coincide with the Congressional term, nor with the duration of a federal government. The Supreme Court Judge must maintain his or her duty until another is appointed and confirmed; only then is his or her service terminated.</del> '''lasts for six months, or shorter, if he/she resigns due to personal reasons or a conflict of interests, or if the Judges declare their inability to judge the case.'''
 
###'''At the end of his/her term, the Judge must stand down and another must be elected.'''
 
###'''Judges must not remain in office for two consecutive terms, except in exceptional circumstances, such as if there are no other candidates.'''
 
##If one of the Supreme Court Judge resigns from his or her duty, the Department of Justice is bound to appoint a successor, with Congressional confirmation, within one month's time. It is the Supreme Court Judges' duty to continue their service until another Judge is confirmed, and until all ongoing cases are terminated, or prepared to be passed on to his successor, without causing disturbances.
 
## Congress has the unique power to discharge a Supreme Court Judge forthwith, by a special majority. The Department of Justice is then bound to appoint a successor, with Congressional confirmation, within one month's time.
 
   
I think we have enough support for this bill to pass, and it has been open for discussion for long enough. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 12:10, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
+
====Comments====
  +
(Correction: only 66% for an amendment, not 75%) --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 18:08, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
   
Another 15 votes needed. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 19:43, February 16, 2012 (UTC)
+
Wouldn't this go in section 5 though due to its realtion to election matters? The article doesn't matter much to me though [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 16:22, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
   
===Voting===
+
66% thanks semyon for the corrections, also glad to see the voice of far-right conservatism always in play :P (so far 32 votes in favor!) [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 18:16, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
{{voting}}
 
====Pro====
 
   
*{{pro}} 6 votes --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 12:11, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
+
Your voting contra over personal reasons, sunkist. Dissapointing. [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 21:32, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
*{{pro}} 4 votes -- [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] 12:26, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
*{{pro}} 11 votes <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 12:49, February 12, 2012 (UTC) Although, the exceptional circumstance thing is a bit undemocratic.
 
*{{Pro}} 13 Votes [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 13:10, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
*{{pro}} 14 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 13:19, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
* {{pro}} 4 votes --{{User:Jeffwang16/sig}} 13:28, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
* {{pro}} 8 votes - [[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]] 22:36, February 16, 2012 (UTC)
 
* {{pro}} 11 votes [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|35px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 19:32, February 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
====Contra====
+
What, I just said why I'm voting against it, I'm against the Supreme Court taking peoples voting rights away and the states inability to set the age limit where they want too. How can you just accuse me like this, what the hell? [[User:-Sunkist-|-Sunkist-]] ([[User talk:-Sunkist-|talk]]) 21:42, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
   
*{{Contra}} 1 Vote [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 13:10, February 12, 2012 (UTC) (nothing against you, I still don't like judges and strong courts at a federal level) (Progressive Conservative Party)
+
Yes, I know the supreme court ccan but remember, you'd have to file the case. But it before the court, get it agreed to, then afterwards if there is public dissaproval its accpeted. If there is then obviously Lovia, Democracy, and the Judiciary branch must be corrupt. I think that's aimed at very horrible ciminals or domestic terrorists (civil war) so that if they do go to jail, (in our case) prisoners having the right to vote, you don't. [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 21:46, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
*{{contra}} 2 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 13:20, February 12, 2012 (UTC) (PNO)
 
* ...
 
   
====Abstention====
+
: Then sepecify it and also allow states to raise or lower the age limit as they please, don't make them have a cap limit. [[User:-Sunkist-|-Sunkist-]] ([[User talk:-Sunkist-|talk]]) 22:08, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
: It would make little sense for people to be able to vote in the federal elections but not their state's elections. :P [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 22:13, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
: I thank topaz for that totally valid point. On the issue of the courts, you can chage it after this passes to a more progressive liking if you want, i'll support it. The general support is for the universal (almost) age of 18. So we kept that federally. But there is some who want 17 and 16, so im devolving that power to the states just for statewide elections. [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 22:18, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
   
* {{abstention}} 1 vote. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 13:20, February 12, 2012 (UTC) (RTP)
+
=====Slight problem=====
  +
For this law to go in effect, we would have to bring back the State Laws. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 08:47, March 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:Should we change it to governor, then? <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 11:53, March 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::Well, such a thing should be in a law. So, it requires state law :P --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 12:01, March 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::@Oos - You've seen through my master plan of proposing a law which would eventually rile up state's rights advocates like you into starting a fight for devolution. LOL no but i'm 1000% behind state law, let's get on it!!! [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 12:58, March 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
== Libertas becoming a full member of the IWO ==
  +
Libertas will officialy become a member of the International Wikination Organisation. [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] ([[User talk:Wabba The I|talk]]) 18:08, March 21, 2013 (UTC)
  +
===Voting===
  +
  +
==== Pro ====
  +
*{{Pro}} 4 votes - [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] ([[User talk:Wabba The I|talk]]) 18:10, March 21, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{pro}} 14 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 19:11, March 21, 2013 (UTC) (CCPL - OSB - RTP)
  +
*{{Pro}} 6 votes (first wikination) [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 20:48, March 21, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 8 votes <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 22:24, March 21, 2013 (UTC)
  +
* {{Pro}} --[[User:Quarantine Zone|Quarantine Zone]] ([[User talk:Quarantine Zone|talk]]) 01:12, March 22, 2013 (UTC)
  +
* {{Pro}} 8 votes. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 13:13, March 22, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 5 votes [[User:-Sunkist-|-Sunkist-]] ([[User talk:-Sunkist-|talk]]) 16:37, March 26, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{pro}} 5 votes --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 20:28, April 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{pro}} 2 votes [[User:Daembrales|Daembrales]] ([[User talk:Daembrales|talk]]) 18:05, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
==== Contra ====
 
*...
 
*...
   
{{accepted}}, which is good. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 18:04, February 24, 2012 (UTC)
+
==== Abstain ====
  +
*{{Abstention}} 4 votes [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 02:50, March 22, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Abstention}} 3 votes [[File:Flag of the Hurian Federation.png|30px|border]] [[User:Vivaporius|Vivaporius]]: <small>"[[User talk:Vivaporius|I don't need a slogan]]"</small> 02:18, March 23, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*...
   
==009. The Other Parts of the Judicial Reform (take 3)==
+
=== Comments ===
=== Article 1 ===
+
*I don't feel I can vote on this until I have a link to the wikination in question. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 20:47, April 16, 2013 (UTC)
'''Article 1 A''' - [[Lovia]]n National State
+
**Come on, you've never heard of Libertas? [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 20:48, April 16, 2013 (UTC)
# Lovia is a sovereign, independent, unitary and indivisible National State.
+
***(edc) [http://stad.wikia.com/wiki/Wikistad:Hoofdpagina Here you go.] I'm surprised you weren't familiar with it already tbh. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 20:51, April 16, 2013 (UTC)
# Lovia is a democratic and social state, governed by the rule of law, in which human dignity, the [[citizen]]s' rights and freedoms, the free development of human personality, justice and political pluralism represent supreme values, in the spirit of the democratic traditions of the Lovian people and shall be guaranteed.
+
****It would seem my vote was not needed anyways. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 06:27, April 17, 2013 (UTC)
# Lovia shall be organized based on the principle of the separation and balance of powers - legislative, executive, and judicial - within the framework of constitutional democracy. Therefore no person is entitled to combine a top function in two or three branches of government; thus, the ruling monarch, the Prime Minister and the Supreme Court Judge shall be no less than three different persons.
+
{{Accepted}} By a 51% majority at minimum (QZ did not specify # of votes). <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 01:12, April 17, 2013 (UTC)
# In Lovia, the observance of the Constitution, its supremacy and the laws shall be mandatory.
 
# The national sovereignty shall reside within the Lovia people, that shall exercise it by means of their representative bodies, resulting from free, periodical and fair elections, as well as by referendum.
 
# No group or person may exercise sovereignty in one's own name.
 
   
'''Article 1 B''' - [[Lovia]] is a monarchy, ruled by the ruling monarch.
+
: Thanks everyone! [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] ([[User talk:Wabba The I|talk]]) 11:13, April 17, 2013 (UTC)
# The [[ruling monarch]] is the person who legally inherited the throne from the previous ruling monarch. He or she is thus a descendant of the first Lovian monarch, King Arthur I of Lovia (Arthur Noble).
 
## The ruling monarch can be either male (the King) or female (the Queen).
 
# The method of the line of succession to the Lovian throne is absolute cognatic primogeniture. Therefore, the person who legally inherits the Lovian throne, after the previous ruling monarch has either deceased or abdicated, is the person who is the eldest child of the previous monarch. If the monarch had no children, the throne goes to the next oldest sibling, followed by younger siblings and cousins.
 
## All descendants of Arthur I of Lovia are part of the line of succession, regardless of any activity, except for those that have requested that they be removed.
 
# The partner of the ruling monarch is the person who legally married the ruling monarch. They are a member of the royal family, but they do not enjoy privileges over the citizens of Lovia.
 
# The person first in line to the throne is known as the heir apparent, and becomes monarch after the previous monarch has abdicated or deceased.
 
## The heir apparent to the throne will sign the Constitution upon their coronation.
 
## The heir apparent assumes the throne after they have presented themself to Congress on invitation of a normal majority in Congress. After this, the heir is officially declared Monarch of Lovia.
 
# The ruling monarch has the right to demand financial support from the Department of Finance, in which case the Minister of Finance can decide to grant the ruling monarch an amount of money, in agreement with Congress.
 
## The maximum amount of financial support that can be given is 4000 Lovian dollars per month.
 
# With the exception of the ruling monarch in function, no member of the royal family is granted extra-legal privileges. Each member of the royal family, with the exception of the ruling monarch in function, is a regular citizen as determined by the Constitution.
 
# The ruling monarch's functions in the government are ceremonial.
 
## The ruling monarch should preside over Congress, in partnership with the Speaker of the Congress.
 
## The ruling monarch does not have a vote in Congress, but is free to discuss and make opinions on the laws and activities of Congress.
 
   
Changes: Added two lines at the bottom.
+
== 009. Repeal of Twelfth Amendment ==
   
=== Article 4 ===
+
I request that the Twelfth Amendment be repealed, and be replaced with the text below. Wikipedia defines a constitution as 'a set of fundamental principles or established precedents according to which a state or other organization is governed.' While parts of the Amendment fit this definition, such as minimum age requirements, or anti-discrimination clauses, because they are 'fundamental principles' which Lovia is governed by, others don't. For example, it's not within the remit of a constitution to decide that electioneering as acceptable 30.1 meters away from a ballot station, but not 29.9 meters away. I think this was why there was so much uncertainty about which article to put the law into - it's because actually it shouldn't be in any of them.
'''Article 4''' – The structure of Lovia
 
# The Kingdom of Lovia is governed on different levels:
 
## The federal level encompasses the entire Lovian territory.
 
### The executive power of the federal level inheres to the Government of Lovia. This government consists of the [[Prime Minister]] and the ministers of the federal government, and has control over government departments, government institutions and civil services.
 
#### The Prime Minister and other ministers are Members of the Congress; however, the heads of government institutions and civil services do not need to be Members of the Congress.
 
### All legislative power inheres to the Lovian [[Congress]]. This parliamentary body consists of the [[Members of the Congress]], who are either democratically elected by the citizens of Lovia or who are Member by Right (the ruling monarch). Congress may, as the sole body in the nation, write and amend legal matters in the [[Federal Law]] and the [[Constitution]].
 
### All judicial power inheres to the [[Supreme Court]] of Lovia.
 
## The state level consists of five states with limited powers: [[Clymene]], [[Kings]], [[Oceana]], [[Seven]] and [[Sylvania]].
 
### The executive power of the federal level inheres to the Governor and Deputy Governor of each state, both democratically elected by the citizens of each state.
 
### The local level, consisting of cities and towns, and the sublocal level, consisting of neighborhoods and hamlets, are governed by the state authorities.
 
   
Changes: Added a fourth level line that says the PM and ministers are MOTCs.
+
An extra part of Article 2 of the constitution (in bold):
   
=== Article 8 ===
+
# Every human being and citizen has the right:
'''Article 8''' Elections and the formation of a federal government
+
## Of freedom of thought, meaning and religion.
# Federal Elections:
+
## Of equality, by race, religion, political opinion, language, sex, property, birth or other statuses.
## Every year federal elections must be held for the election of the 100 seat Congress.
+
## Of privacy.
## The term of office of every Member of the Congress is exactly one year. Therefore every year the elections should be held at the same date.
+
## To have personal or common property.
## Election procedure during Federal Elections:
+
## To be arrested in a trial and to be treated correctly.
### During a period of three weeks, any Lovian citizen can, without restrictions, become a candidate in the Federal Elections. This period begins exactly one month and twenty-one days before Inauguration Day.
+
## To have a residence.
### During a period of three weeks, any Lovian citizen can cast his or her votes in favor of candidates in the Federal Elections.
+
## To work and to receive education.
#### Every citizen may cast three favorable votes in the Federal Elections: a Major Vote, a Minor Vote and a Favor Vote. A Major Vote is worth three points, a Minor Vote two and a Favor Vote one.
+
## To relax and recreate.
#### Citizens may choose not to cast their votes, or to only cast some of them.
+
## To live in peace with his or her fellow-men.
#### Citizens may not cast multiple votes for the same candidate. All cast votes must be given to different candidates.
+
## To live in welfare.
#### All citizens must receive at least three points to receive any seats in Congress.
+
## To become a Lovian citizen.
### The normal dates of elections, excluding the possibility of a dissolution of Congress, are set at December 10th to 31st for nominations, and from January 1st to 21st for voting. Inauguration Day is set at February 1st.
+
# Every Lovian [[citizen]] has the right:
### All candidates will complete the elections with a percentage of the total votes, with the exception of those that have withdrawn.
+
## To have a number of residences in Lovia, but no more than three.
#### The percentage of votes cast to a certain candidate from the total votes cast is the amount of seats in Congress that the candidate will control.
+
#'''Every Lovian citizen above the minimum age requirement has the right:'''
##### The congressperson may delegate their seats to all the parties that they wish, but still control the votes of each congressperson.
+
##'''To vote in federal and state elections.'''
## New federal elections must be held when more than half of the Members of the Congress are inactive; either self-declared or if they have not edited for over a month (30 days).
+
###'''The minimum age requirement is set at:'''
# The Prime Minister and Ministers of the Federal Government:
+
####'''Eighteen years, for the federal elections.'''
## A coalition of political parties and/or Members of the Congress that control more than 50% of the seats of Congress should form between the end of elections and Inauguration Day.
+
####'''Either sixteen, seventeen or eighteen years, for the state elections, at the discretion of the government of the respective state.'''
## The coalition should create a proposal of which Members of the Congress should become the Prime Minister and the ministers of the federal government. This proposal must be approved by a normal majority in Congress.
+
###'''No citizen may be barred from voting on grounds of their gender, sexual orientation, race, personal beliefs, or religious background.'''
### If no government proposal is approved, then the former government should continue its duties until a government proposal is approved by Congress.
 
## A Member of the Congress should be elected by a normal majority of Congress to become the Speaker of the Congress, who presides over Congress in conjunction with the ruling monarch.
 
### The Speaker of the Congress has the power to appoint a special session of congress in the case that more than half of congressional members are inactive and elections are not being held.
 
## Congress should be able to question all executing members of government - of any level - about their activities. If the congress has lost their trust in the questioned person, a motion of distrust may be proposed in congress against him or her. When this motion is accepted by a normal majority, he or she has to resign from the government and a replacement has to be proposed by another Member of the Congress, accepted by the person who is nominated, and approved by Congress.
 
## When Congress has lost its trust in the incumbent government, it can vote a motion of no confidence. When this motion is accepted by a normal majority, both the government and Congress are dissolved and new federal elections are to be held, with the former government and congress continuing until inauguration of the new congress.
 
## If the Prime Minister or a minister resigns, a replacement has to be proposed by another Member of the Congress, accepted by the person who is nominated, and approved by Congress.
 
## The Prime Minister may schedule new federal elections at any time. If he or she decides to do so, both the government and Congress are dissolved and new federal elections are to be held, with the former government and congress continuing until inauguration of the new congress.
 
# State Elections:
 
## Every Lovian citizen has the right to become a candidate for Governor of a state wherein he or she has an official residence.
 
### It is not permitted to be a candidate during a state election in more than one state.
 
## The term of office of the elected Governor and Deputy Governor is exactly one year. Therefore every year the elections should be held at the same date.
 
## Election procedure during State Elections:
 
### During a period of two weeks, any Lovian citizen and resident of the state can become a candidate in the State Elections. This period begins exactly one month before the day of the inauguration of the Governor and Deputy Governor.
 
### During a period of two weeks, any Lovian citizen can cast his or her vote in favor of a candidate in the State Elections of the state of which he or she is an official resident.
 
#### Every citizen may cast one vote per state election. Inhabitants of multiple states have the right to cast one vote for each state in which they have an official residence.
 
#### Citizens may choose not to cast their vote.
 
### The normal dates of elections, excluding the possibility of a resignation of both Governor and Deputy Governor, are set at September 16th to 30th for nominations, and from October 1st to 14th for voting. Inauguration Day is set at November 1st.
 
### The candidate who received the highest number of votes and at least three will become Governor of the state in which he or she participated in the state elections.
 
#### In the case of an ex aequo, a second voting round must be held within two weeks' time.
 
#### The Governor is in charge of the competencies given to the state government.
 
### The candidate who received the second highest number of votes and at least three will become Deputy Governor of the state in which he or she participated in the state elections.
 
#### The Deputy Governor is in temporary charge of the state competencies during the absence of the Governor.
 
#### Upon the resignation of the Governor, or any other instance causing the Governor to quit, the Deputy Governor becomes Governor and will keep this office until the next elections.
 
   
Changes: Added and revised some stuff about the part titled "The Prime Minister and Ministers of the Federal Government", and reinstated a 3-vote legal requirement, to make sure that inactive people won't get elected.
+
An new federal law, to be entitled the Elections Regulation Act:
   
This is the old non-judicial amendment that didn't get passed due to inactivity--you can read what it does. I've also changed federal secretaries to ministers of the federal government. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 14:44, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
+
#Any citizen wishing to exercise their constitutional right to vote must file registration for voting with the State Government.
  +
##Registration must be filed at least two weeks before an election is held.
  +
#Proven violation of Article 2.3.1.2. of the Constitution is a felony, punishable by a minimum of a 10,000 dollar fine.
  +
##The Supreme Court may prescribe a greater punishment depending on the severity of the crime.
  +
#The voting rights of citizens can be removed by way of a Supreme Court order if they are deemed unfit to exercise those rights.
  +
#Electioneering is allowed, but only 30 meters or more away from the location where a voter casts a ballot.
  +
##Breaking this law once leads to a 1000 dollar fine. Breaking it more than once leads to a minimum prison sentence of three days and a 3000 dollar fine.
  +
###The Supreme Court may prescribe a greater punishment depending on the severity of the crime.
   
 
===Voting===
 
===Voting===
{{Voting}}
+
====Pro====
  +
*{{pro}} 5 votes. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 17:03, March 25, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{pro}} 8 votes -- Repeal is not necessary, however, since I voted pro on a condition, and my condition was not followed, and thus the necessary support was not reached. This should be treated as the revised Twelfth Amendment, the original of which never passed. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 20:15, March 25, 2013 (UTC)
  +
**The same argument did occur to me, but I wondered if it was somewhat specious. :P --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 20:42, March 25, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 6 votes (good compromise) [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 21:08, March 25, 2013 (UTC)
  +
**Glad you think so. :) --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 21:11, March 25, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 4 votes. The other clauses should be added to the Federal Law separately. [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 02:37, March 26, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 3 votes - Sounds good on paper. So I'm incline to believe it will work well in act. [[File:Flag of the Hurian Federation.png|30px|border]] [[User:Vivaporius|Vivaporius]]: <small>"[[User talk:Vivaporius|I don't need a slogan]]"</small> 02:53, March 26, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{pro}} 14 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 08:51, March 26, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{pro}} 8 votes [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 12:40, March 26, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{pro}} 4 votes [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] ([[User talk:Wabba The I|talk]]) 13:45, March 26, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{pro}} 7 votes again well for such a reform - [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 16:38, March 26, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{pro}} 2 votes [[User:Daembrales|Daembrales]] ([[User talk:Daembrales|talk]]) 18:05, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{pro}} 3 votes. Isn't most of this in Article 8 of the constitution? --[[User:Quarantine Zone|Quarantine Zone]] ([[User talk:Quarantine Zone|talk]]) 22:12, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
  +
* {{pro}} 4 votes. [[User:Bart K|Bart K]] ([[User talk:Bart K|talk]]) 12:36, June 14, 2013 (UTC)
   
  +
====Contra====
  +
*{{Contra}} 5 votes, I still believe that states should be able to place age limits on their elections at any age they want, or keep it at 18. --[[User:-Sunkist-|-Sunkist-]] ([[User talk:-Sunkist-|talk]]) 08:36, April 13, 2013 (UTC)
  +
**I understand that, but I don't think that age limits should ever go below 16. I think that allowing states to set their own limits is remarkably devolutionist in itself. :) --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 21:45, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
====Abstain====
  +
*...
  +
  +
Well, the ERA is now passed, but the Constitution part isn't. :/ I'll add ERA. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 13:47, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
{{Accepted}} By a 68% majority. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 13:45, June 14, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
== 010. One millionth State Reform ==
  +
  +
Okay, I think it's good enough. We need a special majority: [http://nation.wikia.com/wiki/User:Ooswesthoesbes/Christian_Law#State_Law State Law] and [http://nation.wikia.com/wiki/User:Ooswesthoesbes/Christian_Law#State_Council State Council]. As there does not seem to be enough support for State Courts, I propose to keep it in the freezer and maybe vote seperately on that later on.
  +
  +
===Voting===
 
====Pro====
 
====Pro====
*{{Pro}} 11 votes <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 14:44, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{pro}} 14 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 11:19, April 6, 2013 (UTC) (CCPL - OSB - RTP)
* {{pro}} 17 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 14:57, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{Pro}} 6 Votes [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 11:30, April 6, 2013 (UTC) (about damn time)
* {{pro}} 6 votes. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 14:59, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{pro}} (5 votes :P) --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 13:27, April 6, 2013 (UTC)
*{{Pro}} 11 votes [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 15:03, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{Pro}} 3 votes. --[[User:Quarantine Zone|Quarantine Zone]] ([[User talk:Quarantine Zone|talk]]) 01:17, April 8, 2013 (UTC)
*{{Pro}}<span style="font-style: normal; "> 11 votes [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] [[File:follow_me.PNG|35px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 20:15, February 16, 2012 (UTC)</span>
+
*{{pro}} 4 votes [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] ([[User talk:Wabba The I|talk]]) 18:37, April 8, 2013 (UTC)
*{{Pro}} 4 votes - [[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]] 22:38, February 16, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{Pro}} 5 votes. Why not? [[User:-Sunkist-|-Sunkist-]] ([[User talk:-Sunkist-|talk]]) 08:34, April 13, 2013 (UTC)
*{{Pro}} 5 votes [[Christopher Costello|<font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello</font>]] <sup>([[User:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi</font>]] • [[User_talk:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Chat</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>What's up</font>]])</sup> 00:20, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{Pro}} 7 votes [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 11:20, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
  +
* {{pro}} 4 votes [[User:Bart K|Bart K]] ([[User talk:Bart K|talk]]) 09:09, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
   
 
====Contra====
 
====Contra====
*{{Contra}} 4 votes - Confederate members of the CNP voting - [[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]] 22:40, February 16, 2012 (UTC)
+
*...
*{{Contra}} 4 votes --{{User:Jeffwang16/sig}} 23:52, February 16, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
 
====Abstain====
 
====Abstain====
*{{Abstain}} 3 votes [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 15:03, February 12, 2012 (UTC) (Me, PCP, LCP) (I'm now seeing the benefit of abstain, it means not bad, but needs more or isn't 100%, i think this law dose something but really not much. I still like departments over ministries.)
+
*{{abstain}} 8 votes - Elections for the state council are too complex. I think it's too much. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 14:35, April 6, 2013 (UTC)
*{{Abstain}} (4 votes) No ministries. In case I support it I will repropose it with the term department [[User:Pierlot|Pierlot McCrooke]] 16:11, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{abstain}} 8 votes. Same as Time here. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 13:01, April 17, 2013 (UTC)
*:I don't support this. ^points s better. With this inactive people will be elecgted even faster [[User:Pierlot|Pierlot McCrooke]] 16:12, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{abstention}} 2 votes [[User:Daembrales|Daembrales]] ([[User talk:Daembrales|talk]]) 18:05, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
*:Pierlot you also need to put how many of your congressmen you want to vote Abstain for this, right now it's only 1 vote abstain for you [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 16:13, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
*:Formerly, it was zero. There was no legal requirement, as it was deleted in the 2011 State Reform. I'm adding it back. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 16:33, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
===Comments===
+
{{Declined}} Expired. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 13:47, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
Can we get this over with and approve it already?? <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 13:41, April 1, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
{{accepted}}, which is good. (mocking Semyon :P) <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 00:32, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
+
====Comments====
  +
Couldn't this be a 12th state reform :D [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 12:55, April 6, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:Well, it's the twelfth amendment if accepted, but not the twelfth state reform :P I think it's the fourth :P --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 12:57, April 6, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:True my mistake :P [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 13:06, April 6, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::Actually, it's the third real state reform if we don't count the one when Dimitri wanted to stress Lovia as a federal state :P --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 13:09, April 6, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::How many votes pro semyon! XD lol [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 13:32, April 6, 2013 (UTC)
   
<nowiki>:O</nowiki> --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 18:25, April 15, 2012 (UTC)
+
::::I understand 3.4.2 good but what is it now? Oceana has what age and Kings has what age and ... ? [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] ([[User talk:Wabba The I|talk]]) 18:37, April 8, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::::::What do you mean? About, voting age? It varies about state elections is all not that major. [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 21:32, April 8, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::::::@Wabba: the voting age will be set in the State Law. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 03:12, April 9, 2013 (UTC)
   
==008. Settlement Recognition Act==
+
Let me stress the direct need of State Laws, or the law above this one will be illegal (no state laws, no setting of voting age per state). So I urge all the people blocking this to bring forth better ideas or change their vote to {{pro}}. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 10:20, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
#To organize all existing settlements, as defined in the Settlement Act, the National Settlement Order (NSO) is created.
+
:And anyway, actually, apart from states with more than three candidates running, nothing changes. There is nothing that's more complex... --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 10:32, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
#The duties of the National Settlement Order are:
+
:I don't think it is prohibited to set a state voting age. State Laws might be illegal, but this is just a decree. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 11:25, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
##To list all existing settlements in Lovia.
+
::A voting age should be placed in a legal document. Currently, states - read the constitution - do not have the right to create legal documents. And as I said, practically, nothing changes, apart from the new State Laws and the fact that a user will represent f.e. 15 people instead of 1... --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 11:37, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
###This includes all settlements, such as cities, towns, villages and hamlets.
+
::I don't even think It will be that much though, this law is designed to say, If your interest and want to mae changes to your state you should have the choice not just one man with near dictorial authority only bound to by the federal law. I think even after this, a clause to say you can run and be able to  participate in two states whould be better because if you have the interest to change your state you should be able to. This way, even while a good half of users are semi inactive we will have at least two to four users trying to vote and change states. Obviously I think users like Semyon and Oos, in there respecctive states, will hold near majorities in there states because of there interest and now the use of the '3-2-1' voting system in state elections. For myself? I would love to rune in Clymene and Sylvania, I love both of these states, hell I would even love to do it in all give, but I understand that that isnt practical but what would be better is two so people can have invested interest in the state they do love. And plus theres an inactivity part within this bill, s o if soo many new users get elected, and fail to participate, new elections are held, and i'm guess the actives user's share of the vote will be greatly increased. [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 12:13, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
###Recognized neighborhoods will be listed together with their respective settlement.
 
##To list the population and state of each settlement.
 
#All settlements recognized by Congress should be written in the Order.
 
##To recognize a settlement, the settlement must be approved by a normal majority in Congress.
 
   
In addition it will be added to the Public Law book when it passes.
+
On second thought, your entire argument is invalid, as most states have already implemented state councils... The only thing that'll change is that they get State Laws (so some real legislation). --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 07:01, April 21, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
My argument? Anyway I think this vote has failed. so if thats the case It's just one step closer to the LP abstaining from congress, its getting old. [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 20:55, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:No, TM's argument that it would make everything more difficult. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 03:21, May 21, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
== 011. Repeal Green Energy Act ==
  +
It's silly. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 16:17, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
   
 
===Voting===
 
===Voting===
{{Voting}}
+
====Pro====
  +
*{{pro}} 5 votes. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 16:17, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 5 votes. [[User:-Sunkist-|-Sunkist-]] ([[User talk:-Sunkist-|talk]]) 16:18, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 7 votes [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 16:19, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 6 votes [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 16:57, April 20, 2013 (UTC) (I prolly even voted for this, but it's empty language and not even enforced)
   
  +
====Contra====
  +
*...
  +
  +
====Abstain====
  +
*{{Abstention}} 4 votes (The "premise" of the act is good, but it seems to have been ignored) [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 21:02, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::We who started this, (Sunkist, Semyon and me) want to repeal this and replace it with a new Green Energy act that is properly written and can actually help us progress as a nation towards green energy. A pro would help us to get this moving. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 21:27, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::I say get the act written first. :P <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 22:00, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::::I agree with TM. First write a new one, cuz then we'd only need one change in the law instead of two. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 06:57, April 21, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Abstention}} 4 votes - On the grounds that I'd much rather see what the other party has to offer before I make any decisions on the matter. [[File:Flag of the Hurian Federation.png|30px|border]] [[User:Vivaporius|Vivaporius]]: <small>"[[User talk:Vivaporius|I don't need a slogan]]"</small> 22:36, April 20, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{abstention}} 2 votes [[User:Daembrales|Daembrales]] ([[User talk:Daembrales|talk]]) 18:05, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
{{Declined}} Expired. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 13:47, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
== 012. Approval of the Headlands Cross State Line ==
  +
The construction of the "[[Headlands Cross State Line]]" will take place.
  +
*Costs - '''$70,500,000'''
  +
**Labour - 1 average worker @ ~$60,000 - ~500 workers - '''$30,000,000'''
  +
**Resources - 1km of rail @ ~$500,000 - ~81km of rail - '''$40,500,000'''
  +
  +
===Voting===
 
====Pro====
 
====Pro====
*{{Pro}} 14 Votes [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 15:38, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{Pro}} 6 votes [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 14:24, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
*{{Pro}} 17 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 16:09, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{Pro}} 7 votes Surprised it took so long to get here. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 14:35, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
*{{pro}} 6 votes. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 16:11, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{Pro}} 4 votes [[File:Flag of the Hurian Federation.png|30px|border]] [[User:Vivaporius|Vivaporius]]: <small>"[[User talk:Vivaporius|I don't need a slogan]]"</small> 21:15, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
*{{pro}} 11 votes. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 16:41, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{Pro}} 4 votes. [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 23:53, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
*{{pro}} 4 votes. --[[User:Pierlot|Pierlot McCrooke]] 16:37, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{Pro}} 5 [[User:-Sunkist-|-Sunkist-]] ([[User talk:-Sunkist-|talk]]) 01:54, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
*{{Pro}} 4 votes. --{{User:Jeffwang16/sig}} 16:54, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{Pro}} 8 votes <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 04:08, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
*{{Pro}} 5 votes. (follow the leader, I guess :P) — [[Christopher Costello|<font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello</font>]] <sup>([[User:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi</font>]] • [[User_talk:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Chat</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>What's up</font>]])</sup> 16:56, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{pro}} 4 votes [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] ([[User talk:Wabba The I|talk]]) 08:28, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
*{{pro}} 5 votes [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] 18:11, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{pro}} 2 votes [[User:Daembrales|Daembrales]] ([[User talk:Daembrales|talk]]) 18:05, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{pro}} 8 votes [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 14:04, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
  +
* {{pro}} 14 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 15:42, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
  +
* {{pro}} 4 votes [[User:Bart K|Bart K]] ([[User talk:Bart K|talk]]) 09:09, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
   
 
====Contra====
 
====Contra====
*<s>{{contra}} 11 votes <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 15:44, February 12, 2012 (UTC) I think this is quite pointless. We already have lists, such as the main page, or [[hamlet]], [[village]], [[town]], etc. I believe this would just have the same fate as the Congressional Journal: unnecessary complexity. You can just look in other places. Simplify, simplify.</s>
+
*...
**Not really, the pages we list the hamlets and stuff aren't officical, which i could just add anything. By you saying this would get out of hand, leads me & should everyone else, to believe your not in favor of the NCO, which is just a different version of this. Think about it. It's quite simple and helps everyone. [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 15:46, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
***Of course, you couldn't just add anything to the NSO either, right? Your argument is invalid, the NSO could get changed the same way the front page could be. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 16:29, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
***No it says it needs a 51% to change, so yeah proper parlimentary procedure. But just for the record we don't need to re-approve the places like NC or HU they're already approved. [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 16:43, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
****Right, we have already approved them in recognitions of the existing localities. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 16:53, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
*<s>{{contra}} 5 votes - I have to agree with Time on this one — [[Christopher Costello|<font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello</font>]] <sup>([[User:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi</font>]] • [[User_talk:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Chat</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>What's up</font>]])</sup> 16:39, February 12, 2012 (UTC)</s>
 
   
 
====Abstain====
 
====Abstain====
  +
*<s>{{abstention}} 14 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 14:33, May 18, 2013 (UTC) I keep to my point that I'll only approve this if a railway between East Hills and Hurb is constructed as well.</s>
  +
 
*
 
*
*
+
*:Can that not be done in another vote? [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 14:35, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
*
+
*::Not separately :P --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 16:09, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
{{Accepted}} Over a 50% majority!!! I will now add it to the Public law book. [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 16:46, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
+
*::@oos - if the people who support this in princple of railroad contrustion and jobs they'd prolly support it too so vote pro! [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 16:13, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
::You're not speaker. --{{User:Jeffwang16/sig}} 16:54, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{abstain}} Where are stations or stops? [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] ([[User talk:Wabba The I|talk]]) 16:18, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
:::Doesn't matter (unstroke). <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 17:04, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
+
*<s>{{abstain}}</s> (clarified) Agree with Wabba, and also, is this the same thing that we had discussed in chat a couple months ago to extend one line and make the unextended part a double line? <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 16:46, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
::::Then I will make a act that abolishes the speaker [[User:Pierlot|Pierlot McCrooke]] 17:27, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
+
**@wabba? Are you serious? Usually it'll be decided by the train company that wants to use it and will be done along the way. the last one that was agreed too, in which YOU were apart of. [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 18:36, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
:::::That doesn't help Lovia. It's roleplay. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 17:36, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
==012. [[Lovian National Sevens Team]] Recognition==
 
By a simple 50% majority we shall now recognize the LNST with this amendment to the Sports Act:
 
*The [[Lovian National Sevens Team]] is the fully recognized national Rugby Sevens team of Lovia.
 
===Voting===
 
{{Voting}}
 
   
====Pro====
+
::@Wabba - Stops are in Charleston, Train Village and Noble City. @Time - yes that exact one. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 19:46, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
   
*{{Pro}} 14 Votes [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 13:49, February 21, 2012 (UTC)
+
::We already have the [[Peace Island Railway]] and the [[Trans Sylvanian Railway]] which both stops in Clave Rock so why a new one? But you are rights. Charleston needs a station too. But I think it is better to smelt them into one (Trans Sylvanian and this proposal) with stops in Noble City, Train Village, Charleston and Clave Rock? But you are the Governor and Deputy Governor. [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] ([[User talk:Wabba The I|talk]]) 20:18, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
*{{pro}} 17 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 13:50, February 21, 2012 (UTC)
+
:::Thing is Wabba, Noble City, Train Village and Clave Rock are all connected to the railway system. Clave Rock, which has less population than Charleston, is connected and Charleston isn't. This plan would connect it and because of the increased traffic that would be faced (transportation of both people and cargo) it also expands the tracks to Noble City, this increase in capacity will bolster our economy. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 21:10, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
*{{pro}} 5 votes - [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] 18:18, February 21, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{pro}} 11 votes. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] [[File:follow_me.PNG|35px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 18:32, February 21, 2012 (UTC)
+
:::::I think 400 workers is good enough for both (not together). [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] ([[User talk:Wabba The I|talk]]) 14:44, May 21, 2013 (UTC)
*{{pro}} 6 votes. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 19:30, February 21, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{pro}} 11 votes <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 21:11, February 21, 2012 (UTC) though, perhaps it should be at the bottom, not the middle, like the involvement act.
+
{{Accepted}} With a 62% majority. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 16:08, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
*{{pro}} 8 votes - [[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]] 00:19, February 22, 2012 (UTC)
+
  +
== 013. Approval of the Emerald Railway ==
  +
Renovation of the [[Emerald Railway]].
  +
*Costs - '''$100,000,000'''
  +
*Stops: Hurbanova Shkola Hurbanovni (to be constructed on the current line Hurbanova - NC), East Hills
  +
  +
===Voting===
  +
====Pro====
  +
*{{Pro}} 14 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 07:43, May 19, 2013 (UTC) If more than 25+ votes here, I'll switch my vote above :P
  +
**There are 35 votes pro already. :P [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 05:05, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{pro}} 4 votes [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] ([[User talk:Wabba The I|talk]]) 08:28, May 19, 2013 (UTC) East Hills need a station.
  +
*{{Pro}} 8 votes. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 13:47, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 7 votes - I can support this, however we really need to add the cost of these projects to the budget. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 13:59, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{pro}} 2 votes [[User:Daembrales|Daembrales]] ([[User talk:Daembrales|talk]]) 18:05, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 5 votes --[[User:-Sunkist-|-Sunkist-]] ([[User talk:-Sunkist-|talk]]) 03:23, May 21, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 8 votes [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 14:03, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 4 votes. (This has 52 votes now, I think) [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 19:57, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 6 votes (fasionably late ;P) [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 01:12, May 27, 2013 (UTC)
  +
* {{pro}} 4 votes [[User:Bart K|Bart K]] ([[User talk:Bart K|talk]]) 09:09, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
   
 
====Contra====
 
====Contra====
  +
*<strike>(btw i never abstain, don't see the point of it) {{Contra}} 6 votes, needs discussion in some form in the first chamber like our railway did. No petty politics please. [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 11:55, May 19, 2013 (UTC)</strike>
   
 
*
 
*
*
+
*:If you had read all the links I have given you earlier on, you would've known it is entirely worked out. Better than your proposal :P --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 12:38, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
*
+
*:What links? we never even debated this. [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 13:25, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*::In a slightly different model which also connects East Hills to Clave Rock, f.e.: [http://nation.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Kunarian/Train_Village_Executive_Order_2012] --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 08:07, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
   
 
====Abstain====
 
====Abstain====
  +
* ...
   
*
+
{{Accepted}} With a 52% majority. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 23:39, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
*
 
*
 
   
{{accepted}} with a 53% majority. :) --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 19:31, February 21, 2012 (UTC)
+
=== Comments ===
  +
* Do we really need such a large budget. Both railway projects costs too much. Yes tracks are expensive but do we really need 500 workers? Do we really need to pay them all $60,000? [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] ([[User talk:Wabba The I|talk]]) 19:17, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*:Well, it's a project that will take more than a year to construct, so we'd have to give the workers a year worth of salary. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 03:20, May 21, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*::The land in Sylvania the route the track will be laid is quite flat, with lots of workers piling on forwards, it won't be much longer than 1 year. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 09:01, May 21, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*:::Well, the land in Oceana is quite rocky and not flat :P --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 09:27, May 22, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*::::Yes but the route it will be built along is quite flat because there was once a train track there (even with disrepair and damage it won't be too difficult to refurbish things). [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 10:34, May 22, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*:::::True, but you seem to miss out two things: 1. It will be a double-track, so the current route will have to be broadened. 2. We need to build a new railroad bridge over the Hurbanova Stream :) --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 04:07, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
   
==013. [[Lovian National Soccer Team]] (Lovian National Football Team)==
+
== 014. Referendum Act ==
I would like congress to finally allow this team to become official. We can decide on the name later, if not we'll just be trying to haggle out a name and nothing will be achieved (it's been over a year trying to get the team recognized). [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|35px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 19:47, February 28, 2012 (UTC)
+
#All registered Lovian citizens, aged 18 or over, may vote in any nation-wide referendum ordered by Congress.
:I suggest we use association football, btw. It's neutral, and more formal (both soccer and football are short forms of it). Also, Horton, why don't you vote yourself? :) --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 19:52, February 28, 2012 (UTC)
+
#A referendum taking place is semi-binding to what the majority of the voters on the proposal indicated as their preference.
::On wikipedia most teams are styled "national football team", except for the US (where it's soccer). Football sounds better to me, but we can decide on the name later. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|35px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 20:06, February 28, 2012 (UTC)
+
#Each referendum should contain two options that can be voted on by any voter.
:::Good point. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 20:09, February 28, 2012 (UTC)
+
##The option that receives the simple majority of the vote or more will become the option acted upon by Congress and the Federal Government, making appropriate changes.
  +
###For a referendum to become semi-binding, an option must receive at least a simple majority of the votes.
  +
####If no option is able to receive a simple majority of the vote after the first vote, the least popular option will be dropped and another vote held at a later date to settle the issue. This must occur repeatedly until an option receives a simple majority of the vote.
  +
###The first round of voting takes place in [[Forum:Referendum]] and has a legal duration of at least one week, and two weeks at most.
  +
###If a second round of voting is needed, it too takes place in [[Forum:Referendum]] and has a legal duration of at least one week, and two weeks at most.
  +
#Voter turnout, the total amount of correctly casted ballots, must be at least one third of the total franchise for a referendum's result to be semi-binding.
  +
#A referendum can only be issued by the Lovian Congress, following a simple majority in favor of any proposal to hold one.
  +
#All referendums passed by Congress and their recorded results are added to a list of "Approved Referendums".
   
 
===Voting===
 
===Voting===
{{Voting}}
 
 
 
====Pro====
 
====Pro====
  +
*{{Pro}} 14 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 07:45, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 6 votes (Yes! Now we can have that referendum :D) [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 12:00, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 7 votes - I'd prefer if they were fully binding but it still works. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 12:20, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 8 votes. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 13:47, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
  +
**Also, we need to define semi-binding. That never got added. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 13:59, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{pro}} 2 votes, we are going to have a referendum on the monarchy? [[User:Daembrales|Daembrales]] ([[User talk:Daembrales|talk]]) 18:05, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 5 votes --[[User:-Sunkist-|-Sunkist-]] ([[User talk:-Sunkist-|talk]]) 18:08, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 4 votes. [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 05:02, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 4 votes [[File:Flag of the Hurian Federation.png|30px|border]] [[User:Vivaporius|Vivaporius]]: <small>"[[User talk:Vivaporius|I don't need a slogan]]"</small> 03:16, May 21, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 8 votes. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 13:59, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
  +
* {{pro}} 4 votes [[User:Bart K|Bart K]] ([[User talk:Bart K|talk]]) 09:09, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
   
  +
====Contra====
  +
*...
   
*{{pro}} --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 19:52, February 28, 2012 (UTC)
+
====Abstain====
*{{pro}} 11 votes [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|35px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 20:04, February 28, 2012 (UTC)
+
* ...
*{{pro}} 11 Votes, though, how will this be implemented if we haven't decided a name? <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 21:10, February 28, 2012 (UTC)
+
: I'll just add the page to the main namespace as "Football Team", and then we can have a discussionin the oub to work out a definite name. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|35px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 14:36, February 29, 2012 (UTC)
+
{{Accepted}} With a 58% majority. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 14:50, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
*{{pro}} 5 votes - [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] 12:00, February 29, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{pro}} 3 votes — [[Christopher Costello|<font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello</font>]] <sup>([[User:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi</font>]] • [[User_talk:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Chat</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>What's up</font>]])</sup> 15:32, February 29, 2012 (UTC)
+
=== Comments===
*{{pro}} 17 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 13:32, March 1, 2012 (UTC) per discussion below: we will call football football and handegg handegg
+
We should a binding referendum section too? I think we should propose a referenudm on state and local councils as well ^_^ [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 18:59, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
*{{pro}} 8 Votes - [[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]] 17:01, March 1, 2012 (UTC)
+
:Not a good idea. I'm contra binding referenda in the law. Any way, we as Congress ultimately should keep the power. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 11:10, May 22, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::We should also provide a mechanism to ensure congress largely follows the voice of the people, instead of voting NO or YES despite a majority of Lovians wanting the opposite. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 14:01, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::We should not :P We've got elections to pay off any wrongs. If the people are not satisfied with the way Congress works, they'll vote them away. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 08:30, May 27, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
== 015. Revision of OWTBs State Reform: no state councils ==
  +
  +
As I believe it to be in the direct need of the states to regain legislative powers, I will add a reform with just the reconfiguration of the state laws (source: [http://nation.wikia.com/wiki/User:Ooswesthoesbes/Christian_Law?action=edit&section=6], changes are fat).
  +
  +
'''Article 4''' – The structure of Lovia
  +
# The Kingdom of Lovia is governed on different levels:
  +
## The federal level encompasses the entire Lovian territory.
  +
### The executive power of the federal level inheres to the Government of Lovia. This government consists of the [[Prime Minister]] and the ministers of the federal government, and has control over government ministries, government institutions and civil services.
  +
#### The Prime Minister and other ministers are Members of the Congress; however, the heads of government institutions and civil services do not need to be Members of the Congress.
  +
### All legislative power inheres to the Lovian [[Congress]]. This parliamentary body consists of the [[Members of the Congress]], who are either democratically elected by the citizens of Lovia or who are Member by Right (the ruling monarch). Congress may, as the sole body in the nation, write and amend legal matters in the [[Federal Law]] and the [[Constitution]].
  +
### All judicial power inheres to the [[Supreme Court]] of Lovia.
  +
## The state level consists of five states with limited powers: [[Clymene]], [[Kings]], [[Oceana]], [[Seven]] and [[Sylvania]].
  +
### The executive power of the federal level inheres to the Governor of each state, both democratically elected by the citizens of each state.
  +
### The local level, consisting of cities and towns, and the sublocal level, consisting of neighborhoods and hamlets, are governed by the state authorities.
  +
  +
'''Article 5''' – Legislature and executive power
  +
# In general, the competencies of the state level are limited to local government that does not interfere with federal law and government. The following competencies belong to the state level:
  +
## The naming, organizing and maintaining of urban parks, public places, streets, markets, roads (with the exclusion of highways), waterways, natural areas and environmentally significant places that are not protected by the federal government, culturally significant monuments that are not protected by the federal government.
  +
## Informing the state population about the various aspects of the state, the federal government and its policies.
  +
## The construction and planning of neighborhoods and hamlets.
  +
### The Governor may decide on the construction, destruction, re-organization of neighborhoods and hamlets in that specific state.
  +
#### The Lovian Congress may overrule the Governor's decision by a normal majority. From the moment a bill to overrule that decision has been proposed to Congress, the Governor cannot proceed with the construction, destruction or re-organization. If the decision is in effect overruled by Congress, the Governor may not construct, destroy or re-organize neighborhoods and hamlets for one month, to protect the state and its inhabitants from whimsical construction plans.
  +
## Bringing the people of Lovia and the different levels and branches of government closer to one another.
  +
## Advising the Lovian Congress on issues related to the particular state.
  +
## Advising federal institutions in relation to protected natural regions and culturally significant locations and monuments in the particular state.
  +
## Creating and managing state agencies and corporations which have the sole function and duty to perform the tasks the state government is entitled to perform, including but not exclusively maintaining roads and waterways and protecting cultural and natural heritage.
  +
### Such agencies and corporations are not entitled to engage in other economic activities.
  +
### The number of such agencies and corporations within one state may not exceed five, allowing states to run a cultural heritage agency, a natural protection agency, a public works corporation, an urban planning agency, and other possible such agencies or corporations.
  +
# All competencies not covered by the states inhere to the federal level.
  +
# When a state is in conflict with the federal level or with another state, in relation to their legal competencies, any of the involved parties may consult the Supreme Court.
  +
## The Supreme Court Judge must in turn consult the laws of Lovia and must interpret these justly and with respect to the well-being of the Lovians.
  +
### The Supreme Court Judge must then decide to which of the involved parties the competency of conflict inheres.
  +
### The Supreme Court Judge may also find the matter inconclusive. He or she may then require the Congress to amend the Constitution. Such a requirement is binding and obligatory.
  +
  +
'''Article 6''' – Amending the Federal Law '''and State Law'''
  +
# A motion to amend the Federal Law can be:
  +
#* A proposal for a new article in the Federal Law;
  +
#* A proposal to amend a section of the Federal Law;
  +
#* A proposal to remove a section of the Federal Law.
  +
# The required steps to propose a motion to the Federal Law in Congress:
  +
## All Lovian citizens may write and propose motions to the Federal Law.
  +
## Motions are presented to the Members of the Congress in the First Chamber.
  +
## All Members of the Congress are expected to read the motion and form a personal opinion about it. In order to obtain the support of a majority of Members of the Congress, changes may be proposed in the First Chamber.
  +
## If the proposing Member of the Congress expects that the majority of Congress is in favor of the motion, he or she may move it to the Second Chamber.
  +
## All Members of the Congress are expected to vote on the motion in the Second Chamber.
  +
### There are three valid voting options: pro (in favor of the motion), contra (in opposition to the motion) and abstention (the wish not to vote).
  +
### A normal majority is required to pass a motion. A normal majority is described as more than fifty percent of the valid votes.
  +
### All Members of the Congress have two weeks’ time to cast their vote in the Second Chamber. Voting may be closed earlier if the required majority is reached. The proposer may also choose to lengthen the voting period.
  +
## When the motion is accepted by Congress, it must be implemented. The Minister of Justice, the Prime Minister and the ruling monarch are enprivileged to enshrine passed motions in the law, although all Members of the Congress may do it, if done correctly.
  +
## When the motion is not accepted, either because the majority opposed it or because no majority was found in favor of the motion, it shall be removed from the Second Chamber. Any citizen and Member of the Congress has the right to propose an altered version for reconsideration in the First Chamber.
  +
# A motion that is not intended to be enshrined in the Federal Law, but that does need Congressial approval, is proposed and voted in the same way.
  +
# For each motion that has been moved to the Second Chamber by Congress, and that is in due time either approved, rejected or proven unable to gain the required support, Congress must keep a record, starting February 1st of the year 2011, which will be known as the [[Congressional Journal]].
  +
# '''A motion to amend the State Law can be:'''
  +
#* '''A proposal for a new article in the State Law;'''
  +
#* '''A proposal to amend a section of the State Law;'''
  +
#* '''A proposal to remove a section of the State Law.'''
  +
# '''The required steps to propose a motion to the State Law:'''
  +
## '''All Lovian citizens that reside in the concerning State may write and propose motions to the State Law.'''
  +
## '''Motions are presented to the respective State's Governor.'''
  +
## '''The Governor is expected to read the motion and form a personal opinion about it. In order to obtain the support of the Governor, changes may be proposed.'''
  +
### The Governor has two weeks time to either accept or decline a proposal.
  +
## '''When the motion is accepted by the Governor, it must be implemented. The Governor and the Deputy Governor are enprivileged to enshrine passed motions in the law, although all citizens of the respective State may do that, if done correctly.'''
  +
## '''When the motion is not accepted, either because the Governor opposed it or because the two weeks consideration time expired, it shall not be implemented.'''
  +
### '''Any citizen has the right to propose an altered version for reconsideration to the Governor.'''
  +
# '''A motion that is not intended to be enshrined in the State Law, but that does need Governor's approval, is proposed and managed in the same way.'''
  +
# '''The Lovian Congress reserves the right to block additions and amendments to the State Law by a normal majority, if the motion is deemed contradictive, unconstitutional or illegal.'''
  +
# '''It is legal for States to create a State Council with the State's own choice of election system and system of running. However, the Governor has the final say over the workings of the State, behind the Federal Congress.'''
  +
  +
===Voting===
  +
{{voting}}
  +
====Pro====
  +
* {{pro}} 4 votes [[User:Bart K|Bart K]] ([[User talk:Bart K|talk]]) 09:31, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
  +
* {{pro}} 14 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 09:46, June 8, 2013 (UTC) I'd still prefer the other version, but we need this. The states are practically dead now...
  +
* {{pro}} 4 votes [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] ([[User talk:Wabba The I|talk]]) 21:09, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
  +
* {{pro}} 7 votes - [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 10:40, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
  +
* {{pro}} 8 votes I deleted obsolete 5.1.3.1.2, by the way. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 13:43, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
  +
* {{Pro}} 6 votes [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 13:53, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
  +
* {{Template:Pro}} 4 votes I see nothing wrong with this. [[File:Flag of the Hurian Federation.png|30px|border|link=http://hurian-database.wikia.com/wiki/Hurian_Database_Wiki|The Hurian Database Wiki]] [[User:Vivaporius|Vivaporius]]: <small>"[[User talk:Vivaporius|I don't need a slogan]]"</small> 01:24, June 9, 2013 (UTC)
  +
* {{pro}} 8 votes. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 13:45, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 3 Votes --[[User:Quarantine Zone|Quarantine Zone]] ([[User talk:Quarantine Zone|talk]]) 15:24, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 4 votes. I think this would be the best current option for state laws. [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 08:12, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{pro}} 5 votes. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 15:52, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{pro}} 2 votes [[User:Daembrales|Daembrales]] ([[User talk:Daembrales|talk]]) 17:52, June 11, 2013 (UTC) hooray for state law!
   
 
====Contra====
 
====Contra====
  +
*...
   
  +
====Abstain====
  +
*<strike>{{Template:Neutral}} 1 vote [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] ([[User talk:Wabba The I|talk]]) 10:23, June 8, 2013 (UTC) What do you mean with article 6: 2.5.3 the last part: "the proposer may also choose to lengthen the voting period"?</strike>
   
 
*
 
*
*
+
*:That's a part which already exists in the current law: it means that if a majority has not yet been reached within two weeks (because of some temporarily inactive politicians), but chances are high it will be accepted, the proposer may choose to add another week of voting. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 10:30, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
*
 
   
====Abstain====
+
====Comments====
  +
I propose to add this line: It is legal for states to create a state council with the state's own choice of election system and system of running. However, the Governor has the final say over the workings of the state, behind the federal Congress. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 13:47, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:It doesn't really add anything, cause it's not illegal without the line being in the law. But if you think it's really necessary, we'll add it :P --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 08:30, June 9, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::It's not really necessary, it'd just be nice. :P <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 12:50, June 9, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::::Okay, <big><u>'''if anyone objects to this, just change your vote'''</u></big>. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 08:45, June 10, 2013 (UTC) <small>that'd be clear enough I'd say :P</small>
   
  +
A quick calculation: 58 out of 67 > 9 to go :P --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 17:23, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
   
*<s>{{abstention}} 17 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 14:25, February 29, 2012 (UTC) we can't, unless we have decided that it will be "(Association) Football"</s>
+
Oh, and if you're some of those nine votes, please also vote pro on the election amendment farther up the page. x) <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 18:19, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
: I plan on using "football team" (see the above discussion with Semyon). Calling it a "National Associaltion Footbal Team" it too long and it just doesn't sound right. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|35px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 14:36, February 29, 2012 (UTC)
 
::I don't recommend it. Many of us are actual football fans, and personally, I can't stand when soccer is referred to as football. What if someone later on, someone wanted to establish a football organization? — [[Christopher Costello|<font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello</font>]] <sup>([[User:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi</font>]] • [[User_talk:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Chat</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>What's up</font>]])</sup> 15:31, February 29, 2012 (UTC)
 
:::Because logic dictates that calling American football "football" is stupid. The ball is not even a sphere, and it's mostly a hand game. A game that's all about feet is much more deserving of the name "football", as it was originally called. Anyone up for handegg? {{D}} <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 16:41, February 29, 2012 (UTC)
 
::::I'm swayed by Horton's logic that every national football team on Wikipedia is known as 'national football team' apart from the American one, where 'football' means something else. Now, as American rules is not played in Lovia at all, there seems little point in using the American version. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 17:30, February 29, 2012 (UTC)
 
:::::Indeed, so real football is called "football" and American football "handegg"? :P --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 11:38, March 1, 2012 (UTC)
 
::::::In Lovia? That's what I'm recommending. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 11:59, March 1, 2012 (UTC)
 
:::::::American Football isn't really played here, so it would be ok to refer to it as a "football team". [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|35px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 13:28, March 1, 2012 (UTC)
 
::::::::Speaking of football, the US national team beat Italy for the first time yesterday, 1-0. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|35px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 13:52, March 1, 2012 (UTC)
 
*{{abstention}} 2 votes — [[Christopher Costello|<font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello</font>]] <sup>([[User:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi</font>]] • [[User_talk:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Chat</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>What's up</font>]])</sup> 15:32, February 29, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
{{accepted}}, with a 55%+ majority. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|35px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 17:06, March 1, 2012 (UTC)
+
I never understood though why we don't do it out of percentage of votes casted. I mean within a two week period obviously people will vote pro or contra, and it will be seen, so why not just count those who want it passed or not passed. [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 18:26, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
   
==016. Weights and Measures Act==
+
Because if two out of three total voters (of one hundred MOTCs) voted, it shouldn't pass. :P <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 18:27, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
#The primary and official system of measurement used in Lovia is the International System of Units, which may be referred to as the metric system.
 
##All information provided by the government shall, where relevant, use SI units.
 
###Where convenient, SI units may be prefixed with the appropriate SI prefix.
 
###The sole exception is that degrees Celsius shall be used for the measurement of temperature, rather than degrees Kelvin.
 
##The secondary system is the imperial system as used in the United States of America.
 
###Information provided by the government should, if possible, provide the imperial equivalent of any SI units used.
 
##Any purveyor of goods bears responsibility for providing information in the metric system associated with the goods being traded.
 
###The level of precision of measurement shall be left to the discretion of the purveyor, as long as it is not so precise as to hinder the purchaser, nor so imprecise as to deceive.
 
###Where possible and legible, the imperial equivalent of the metric units should also be provided on the goods being traded.
 
#Mathematical punctuation:
 
##The period is used as a decimal mark to indicate the radix point.
 
##The comma may optionally be used to separate digits into groups of three.
 
   
This sets up the weights and measurement system used in Lovia. It will be in the... hmm... I suppose Public Law Book. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 02:12, April 14, 2012 (UTC)
+
yeah but thats why each law must have two weeks of minimal voting. So within that two week period if another memebr sees it and votes contra then it doesn't pass :P [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 18:29, June 10, 2013 (UTC)
   
===Voting===
+
5 to go :P --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 11:20, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
{{voting}}
 
   
  +
{{accepted}} --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 15:53, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
WE HAVE STATE COUNCILS <small>depending on the state and laws which will take time</small> [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 15:59, June 11, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
==016. Weapons and Safety Act==
  +
  +
# Concealed weapons licenses must be obtained in order to conceal any fire arms from others while in public.
  +
## All owners must be at least 24 years of age.
  +
## Ballistic knives and sheath knives are not considered fire arms.
  +
# All automatic weapons are illegal, except in the case of an official government military, militia, or police.
  +
# Switchblade knives are illegal to manufacture, trade, sell, and buy, but legal to own for historical purposes.
  +
# Bayonets are illegal to manufacture, trade, sell, and buy, but legal to own for historical purposes.
  +
# Bullets containing poison, toxins, and explosives are illegal to manufacture, trade, buy, sell, and own, except in the case of an official government military, militia, or police.
  +
## In the case of an official government military, militia, or police, soft chemical explosives are legal.
  +
### This includes chemicals similar to the following: Capsaicin (pepper spray), phenacyl chloride (mace), sleeping gas, tear gas, or chemicals in stun grenades.
  +
#### Sleeping gas is any chemical containing halothane vapour (Fluothane), methyl propyl ether (Neothyl), methoxyflurane (Penthrane), 3-Quinuclidinyl benzilate or fentanyl.
  +
####Tear gas is any chemical containing chlorobenzalmalononitrile, dibenzoxazepine, nonivamide, bromoacetone, xylyl bromide, or synpropanethial-S-oxide.
  +
####Stun grenades are any explosive containing pyrotechnic metal-oxidant mixes of magnesium or aluminum, ammonium perchlorate, or potassium perchlorate.
  +
# Newly manufactured items that have a similar look or use to firearms are required to have orange tips to signify that they are not legally firearms.
  +
## This includes but is not limited to water guns, airsoft guns, paintball guns, pellet guns, BB guns, and model guns.
  +
# Bows and crossbows are considered weapons fit for hunting.
  +
  +
===Voting===
  +
{{Voting}}
 
====Pro====
 
====Pro====
*{{pro}} 11 Votes. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 17:23, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{Pro}} 3 Votes --[[User:Quarantine Zone|Quarantine Zone]] ([[User talk:Quarantine Zone|talk]]) 21:23, June 14, 2013 (UTC)
*{{pro}} - 6 votes (on condition we change the word accuracy to precision.) --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 18:49, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{Pro}} 6 votes [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 22:21, June 14, 2013 (UTC)
**Done. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 02:12, April 14, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{pro}} 14 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 08:55, June 15, 2013 (UTC) (though I agree that the last line is rather useless)
*{{pro}} 9 votes [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|35px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 20:11, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
+
*...
*{{pro}} 5 votes [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] 11:00, April 14, 2012 (UTC)
 
*{{pro}} 16 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 04:41, April 15, 2012 (UTC)
 
*{{Pro}} 12 votes [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 21:06, April 17, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
 
====Contra====
 
====Contra====
*{{Contra}} 2 votes; Lovia should use the imperial system for better accomodation with the US. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|35px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 20:11, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
+
*...
*{{Contra}} 2 votes (same reason as horton stated) [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 21:06, April 17, 2012 (UTC)
 
:*But this accommodates for both, and slightly more citizens prefer the metric system. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 23:09, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
 
====Abstain====
 
====Abstain====
*{{abstention}} 1 vote. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 04:42, April 15, 2012 (UTC) (RTP)
+
*{{Abstention}} 4 votes - Only on the grounds that I find the ban on certain weapons to be a bit too overreaching. Like maybe my guy wants a fully automatic rifle. However, on the grounds of protecting citizens and not being a gun nut, I agree with the billion. Since I'm split on the matter, I abstain. [[File:Flag of the Hurian Federation.png|30px|border|link=http://hurian-database.wikia.com/wiki/Hurian_Database_Wiki|The Hurian Database Wiki]] [[User:Vivaporius|Vivaporius]]: <small>"[[User talk:Vivaporius|I don't need a slogan]]"</small> 02:29, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*:Why the * would you need an automatic rifle for self-protection? A normal gun is more than enough and if won't cause as much collateral damage :P --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 08:55, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Abstain}} 8 votes - Argh, I still think this might be mergeable with the Firearms Act. The last line is kind of meaningless, also. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 03:25, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Abstention}} 4 votes. Yeah, this should probably be reworked, indeed. [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 04:33, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Abstention}} 7 votes there are bits overly picky and far too specific, I also think that a change like this needs to be a complete rethink of the firearms act and more. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 09:57, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Abstention}} 4 votes Like 77topaz, Hoffmann and TimeMaster said. [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] ([[User talk:Wabba The I|talk]]) 13:24, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Abstention}} 4 votes. [[User:Bart K|Bart K]] ([[User talk:Bart K|talk]]) 12:48, June 17, 2013 (UTC)
 
*...
 
*...
   
{{Accepted}} By a 59% majority. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 21:28, April 17, 2012 (UTC)
+
====Comments====
  +
*...
   
==017. Election of Supreme Court Judges==
+
== 017. No confidence ==
I hereby open the election for Supreme Court Judges. Each of the 100 congressman or congresswoman has one vote, which should be cast for their preferred candidate, using the {{pro}} template (in case it wasn't clear :P). The election will close at 0300 hours Lovian time on the 5th of May, when the three candidates with the most votes will become judges. Good luck everyone! :) --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 11:03, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
===Lars Washington (User:TimeMaster)===
+
With the passing of this motion, Congress withdraws its support for the Ilava II Government and calls for immediate federal elections.
*{{pro}} - 2 votes. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 11:03, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
*{{pro}} - 8 votes. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 12:27, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
*{{Pro}} - 4 votes [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 12:49, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
*{{Pro}} - 4 votes [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 13:53, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
*{{pro}} - 3 votes [[user:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] 16:22, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
*{{pro}} - 2 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 16:40, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
===Rico Wasabi (User:The Master's Voice)===
+
===Voting===
*{{pro}} - 2 votes. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 11:03, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
+
{{voting}}
*{{pro}} - 8 votes [[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]] 11:31, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
+
====Pro====
*{{Pro}} - 7 votes [[User:The Master&#39;s Voice|The glorious First Consul of Rome]] 13:52, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{pro}} 5 votes. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 11:38, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
*{{pro}} - 2 votes [[user:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] 16:22, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{Pro}} 6 votes [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 12:28, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
*{{pro}} - 4 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 16:40, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{Pro}} 7 votes - I still support the Ilava government in many ways but the way that certain parties now hold power they shouldn't is something I am firmly against. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 13:00, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
+
*{{pro}} 3 Votes. --[[User:Quarantine Zone|Quarantine Zone]] ([[User talk:Quarantine Zone|talk]]) 19:07, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
===George Matthews (User:Wabba the I)===
+
*{{pro}} 4 votes - [[File:Flag of the Hurian Federation.png|30px|border|link=http://hurian-database.wikia.com/wiki/Hurian_Database_Wiki|The Hurian Database Wiki]] [[User:Vivaporius|Vivaporius]]: <small>"[[User talk:Vivaporius|I don't need a slogan]]"</small> 10:50, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{pro}} 4 votes [[User:Bart K|Bart K]] ([[User talk:Bart K|talk]]) 12:48, June 17, 2013 (UTC)
 
*...
 
*...
   
===Antonia Tilly (User:Horton11)===
+
====Contra====
*{{pro}} - 2 votes. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 12:27, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{contra}} 8 votes - Btw, I thought we were trying to keep the numbers (017. etc.) first & second chamber proposals synchronized? <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 15:28, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
*{{Pro}} - 7 votes [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 13:53, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{contra}} 8 votes (might move to abstain). New elections are unnecessary as our congress is active and works well. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 17:00, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
*{{pro}} - 2 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 16:40, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{Contra}} 4 votes. As per Horton11. [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 02:28, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{contra}} 4 votes [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] ([[User talk:Wabba The I|talk]]) 13:21, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
   
===John Paul Hrádske (User:Ooswesthoesbes)===
+
====Abstention====
*{{pro}} - 2 votes. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 11:03, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{abstention}} 14 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 11:55, June 15, 2013 (UTC) I haven't decided yet
*{{pro}} - 1 vote. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 12:27, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
+
*...
*{{Pro}} - 10 votes [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 12:49, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
*{{pro}} - 1 vote [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] 16:22, April 2012 (UTC
 
*{{pro}} - 8 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 16:40, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
 
===Comments===
 
===Comments===
First past the post is a very bad voting system. Could we try single transferable vote for each of our congresspersons? <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 12:29, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
+
We have inactive people, so what happens if of all total votes cast, there is a majority Pro? There's also a mismatch between motions of confidence (the first proposal that selects the government at the top of this page) and motions of no confidence: a contra for a confidence is a pro for a no confidence and vice versa. But what's an abstention? Should the government be required to maintain confidence, so we'd need a 50% vote Contra to block this proposal? I don't even know; I'll check the Constitution. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 15:40, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:I checked this already. A motion of confidence is treated like any other, so this will have to receive 50% pro to pass. :) --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 15:42, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::Yeah, just checked that too. Maybe it's something to consider changing next Congress? :/ <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 15:45, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::::Yeah, imo wouldn't an absentation, in this case, just be like not voting at all since it's just a straight foward Yes or No vote? [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 15:51, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::::No, this bill has to get 50% to pass as normal. So as usual abstentions are the same as voting contra, practically speaking. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 15:53, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::::IDK how that goes but I thought you wanted the SCP destroyed, this would be a way to raise activity and get rid of them. [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 15:40, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:I do, but I don't think an entirely new Congress is necessary. :P I might change my vote later, though. —[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]]) 15:46, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
   
I agree with the first sentence. However, I think that in practice if someone's preferred candidate is losing they will transfer their votes to their second-preferred candidate instead. That will have the same effect as STV, but without the confusion of having 100 separate voting preferences. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 14:02, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
+
::Well that's not nice. Lovia should not go into dirty politics like our neighbors to the east. My future with SCP is uncertain and has to be decided. I might just act on behalf of the party and merge it into a new project if Marcus is still in (as Happy is not around). [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]] [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 17:00, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
   
:Well, I meant make separate preferential ballots of blocs of congresspersons, not a separate for each one. For example, my bloc of 11 would have 3 separate ballots, 8 sharing one ballot, 2 another, and 1 having their own. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 15:29, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
+
:::Well Ill have to talk to you about that, honestly on chat or now. I have questions [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 19:30, June 15, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::It's not nice, but it's the truth. SCP just doesn't fit in Lovian politics in my idealistic view. :P <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 04:02, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::::Personally I have nothing against the SCP, apart from wanting a chance to reclaim the seats that people gave the CNP, not the SCP. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 07:05, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::::Obvious analysis time It's 25-24-16 and since not the whole congress agrees and the rest inactive most likely not gonna pass unless oos gets along. [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 14:21, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::::::But, guys, elections are fun. :'( --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 17:47, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::::::You might be able to force one by resigning from the Government, and then when Congress can't appoint another due to not having 50% confidence, it will have to dissolve. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 17:54, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::::::::Yeah but then technically, it would have to wait a month since we'd be "inactive" from congress" (right?) I still supprot them I hope you do to TM. I mean technically the only way we get anyhting done it by having 90% of the actives on board (which can never happen) and then the parties with smaller members (like yours) calling and calling for there members to finally just vote! It takes to long we need an active congress. [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 18:00, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
   
::Seems like an awful lot of work to me. :P --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 16:28, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
+
Also, we apparently don't have a provision for a Congress being unable to provide a successor to a minister post, but we do have this: "The Prime Minister may schedule new federal elections at any time. If he or she decides to do so, both the government and Congress are dissolved and new federal elections are to be held, with the former government and congress continuing until inauguration of the new congress." Finally, I don't strongly oppose (it's weak) them but I don't really want to abstain from the vote either, and I just ended up voting Contra. :P <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 18:02, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:Woh, I didn't know the PM actually has something he can do :P --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 09:08, June 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::He's also a member of various inactive boards. :P <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 17:10, June 18, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::   To clear the air, Oos is on one of my Labour boards and too be honest only a few ministers actually do "things" with there positions. While adding to the "inactive" argument, It's me, you and Kunarian only doing something with their ministry positions. Again i'd like a new congress hopefully Oos and you changes the votes for a new congress to be made. [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 01:57, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::Well, I still got a minimum of ten days to decide :P --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 05:56, June 19, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::Marcus, that statement isn't fully accurate. I, as Minister of Tourism and Sport, have revived the LSCA Major Soccer League and also worked on the Lovian Men's Curling Association and the Tour of Lovia. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to be as active in the Ministry of Environment, though I have worked on the National Park Service. [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 06:24, July 1, 2013 (UTC)
   
I'm not George Matthews! I support him but I don't vote on him! [[user:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] 16:22, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
+
I still am not sure about it. It could be useful, but a year is ridiculously short of a term. Most countries have two years at the least, usually four years or more. I'd rather we sort this out in the next Congress, as I'm unsure if we'll really gain anything from a new Congress, other than Happy's seats going from 9 down to 5 or so and PL being eliminated and amendments being a bit easier to pass. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 03:27, June 20, 2013 (UTC)
   
I know you're not Matthews, but I thought you wanted to use him as your character to become judge. :) --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 14:39, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
+
There would be a lot of shift I think. Labour would definitely lose seats as well and I think that I would lose at least two seats if not three. I think that GP would lose seats as well, and there would probably be some minor changes to other things. --[[User:Quarantine Zone|Quarantine Zone]] ([[User talk:Quarantine Zone|talk]]) 20:46, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
   
Anyway, how do we know when to stop? When 100% of MOTCs has voted (that's not going to happen)? 67%? <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 15:32, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
+
== Another Green Energy Act repeal ==
   
Oh, I see. There's a time limit. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 15:33, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
+
Pointless act as pointed out by Seymon and Kunarian. Any Concerns? To the GP or Greens who think this is an attack on environmentalism, i'm the biggest green here, but this isn't even enforced, empty language and just, I don't even get it. I'm sorry how would you expect a nation to become fully green in 2 years? To the neo-cons, hopefully this means later on we do get some moderate legislation and you support it for a greener lovia. Hopefully I hope you vote pro (a social democrat taking away regulation, Tony Blair must be similing from heaven) [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 15:05, June 30, 2013 (UTC)
:What now? The '''thee candidates'''? I though we had agreed on '''FOUR''' Supreme Court Judges? {{smile}} [[User:The Master&#39;s Voice|The glorious First Consul of Rome]] 15:47, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
+
===Pro===
I think that was the original proposal, not the one that eventually was accepted. That one also suggested random selection rather than voting. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 16:22, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{Pro}} 6 Votes [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 15:05, June 30, 2013 (UTC)
:Nope, I'm pretty sure it was four in this case awell. Four, because for one, it is an even number. [[User:The Master&#39;s Voice|The glorious First Consul of Rome]] 16:34, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{Pro}} 7 Votes - tony blair isn't dead... yet. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 15:10, June 30, 2013 (UTC)
::It definitely says three in the law, as well as in the proposal in the Second Chamber. In any case, you're doing rather well. :P --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 16:41, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
+
**Sadly. [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 15:17, June 30, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 2 votes [[User:MartijnM|MartijnM]] ([[User talk:MartijnM|talk]]) 17:55, August 6, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{pro}} 9 votes '''[[User:Happy65|<font color="Teal"> Happy65 </font>]]''' <sup> '''[[User talk:Happy65|<font color="Aqua"> Talk</font>]] [[Conservative Nationalist Party|CNP]] '''</sup>''' [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px]]''' 12:56, August 13, 2013 (UTC)
   
That was the old proposal that was not approved, Magnus. 4 randomly selected jury members plus one judge. A different proposal was accepted. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 23:53, April 21, 2012 (UTC)
+
===Contra===
  +
*{{contra}} There is no positive effect in removing it, because any addition of coal/oil/natural gas hasn't been approved by the community yet. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 21:47, June 30, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{contra}} 14 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 09:19, July 1, 2013 (UTC) agree with TM. we need an alternative first.
  +
*...
  +
*...
   
I hereby announce the election of three new Judges: '''Lars Washington''', '''Rico Wasabi''' and '''John Paul Hrádske'''. Congratulations! :) --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 10:12, May 11, 2012 (UTC)
+
===Abstain===
: :) --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 08:19, May 12, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{Abstention}} 4 votes. Until I see what the proposed "alternative" is, I cannot really vote for this. [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 04:44, July 1, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Abstention}} 8 votes. Until we get a good alternative I'm neutral on this. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 16:50, July 1, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{abstention}} 4 votes [[User:Bart K|Bart K]] ([[User talk:Bart K|talk]]) 10:45, July 26, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*...
   
== 018. Census ==
+
===Comments===
  +
Is there actually a replacement act this time? [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 20:00, June 30, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:Yeah, those were my first thoughts as well. Wouldn't it be a good idea to write at least a replacemtn act? I mean, it doesn't have to be fully fleshed out, but a draft would be nice. [[User talk:Cadaro|'''Cadaro''']] ([[Website: www.tonefactory.lo|www.tonefactory.lo]]) 22:02, June 30, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::Can't believe you got a socialist saying this but, jesus this regulation is too much, and tbh i've never met a leftist who hasn't like a regulation, but heres one to start. Its so broad and useless, OOC it would be never passed. So sure write a replacement but we have to start by repealing it. [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 02:35, July 1, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*@77/GP - But as a Green this act actually harms you instead of helping. The laguage is empty, useless and not even enforced since its passing. So as a green or strong environmentalist and you say "Okay I support the current language" what your getting it nothing anyway, repealing it would be the first step to new legistaltion. I get the whole "we need lengthier legistlation though: but this is literally nothing and actually harms the green cause because it seems as if theres actually somthing there but there isn't. So hopefully you vote to repeal and then work on new legislation. [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 04:58, July 1, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*Why don't we work on new legislation ''before'' repealing the current act? Because, if this gets repealed now, we will have ''no'' legislation on this matter. [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 06:20, July 1, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*But look at the empirical argument, this current legislation does nothing right? This legislation while "Sweeping" isn't enforced. So keeping it or repealing it does nothing, keeping though actually makes it seem like something is getting done and that were all green n stuff, but were not. Repealing it would just eliminate unnesscary regulation (which effects Pool, and sea towns) and allow for actual legislation to be passed instead of being teased into thinking that this is good regulation. [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 13:41, July 1, 2013 (UTC)
  +
**No, it just makes nonrenewable energy illegal. It is only a preventative, since we only had renewable at the time it was passed. :P <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 16:44, July 1, 2013 (UTC)
  +
**I agree with Topaz and Oos. I would like to see a clear solution, concise and effective before we go replacing this. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 16:50, July 1, 2013 (UTC)
   
As it's not included in the law I don't see any reason to postpone this anymore. I propose to increase the population to about 220.000 by retaking a census [[Wikination:Census|old-style]] and multiplying by 10. Any future discussion about how to control population growth in the future can be held separately. If this vote is accepted, I can immediately start fixing everything.
+
== Article 12 - Taxation Act ==
   
===Voting===
+
* '''Article 12.1 - Taxation Regulation'''
{{voting}}
+
*# In accordance with the Financial Outline Act, Congress should set tax levies in a federal budget in February or March for the budget of the fiscal year starting on April 1.
  +
*## A normal majority is required to set tax levy amounts.
  +
*## The tax levies may be reset to a different rate at any time in February or March.
  +
*## Congress may not change the levies after April 1.
  +
*# A proposal of set levies must fulfill one of the following aims:
  +
*## The aim of filling a budget that has been drawn up by the Ministry of Finance; or,
  +
*## The aim of filling a budget that has been drawn up by the Ministry of Finance and paying off debt accumulated by the government.
  +
*# States may set and change levies of different taxes on a State level. These taxes are additional on top of taxes set by Congress.
  +
*## Governors may set tax levies to raise money for use by the State governments, these taxes must be set with one of the following aims. The aim of funding State projects that are beneficial to the prosperity of the State or the aim of funding State projects that are beneficial to the prosperity of the State and paying off debt accumulated by the State government.
  +
*## Congress may overturn the levies set by the Governor by voting with a normal majority.
  +
*### Should Congress overturn levies set by the Governor, then the Governor may not set new levies for four weeks and current levies in the state are set to flat 0% rates.
  +
*# The Ministry of Finance is responsible for filing and collecting taxes.
  +
*## The Ministry of Finance must create documents that shall be used by government and individuals for filing taxes.
  +
*### These documents must be simple, easy to understand and must not be misleading, there must also be a way to trace who filed the taxes on the documents.
  +
*## The Ministry of Finance files taxes for all individuals or corporations unless otherwise stated.
  +
*### In cases where the Ministry files taxes so that an individual or corporation ends up paying more tax than due, they are given an exemption in the next tax year equivalent to the over taxation. In cases where the Ministry files taxes so that an individual or corporation ends up paying less tax than due, the Ministry may request but may not force the individual or corporation to pay the difference on top of taxes in the next tax year.
  +
*### In cases where an individual or corporation files their taxes so that they end up paying more tax than due, they may not request reparations or an exemption. In cases where an individual or corporation files taxes so that an individual or corporation ends up paying less tax than due, the Ministry may force the individual or corporation to pay the difference on top of taxes in the next tax year.
  +
*## The Ministry of Finance must create a department for collecting taxes.
  +
*### Those employed by the Ministry of Finance to this department are considered tax collectors.
  +
*### Tax collectors are responsible for filing taxes
  +
*### Tax collectors may collect taxes electronically with permission of the tax payer, they may also collect them from their bank account with the permission of the tax payer and they may also collect it in person from the tax payer with their permission.
  +
*### Tax collectors are the enforcers of taxation within Lovia. They are given the right to temporarily seize property of tax evaders, disallow individuals or individuals of corporations to leave the country, revoke a citizens passport, use force to detain tax evaders and arrest tax evaders.
  +
*### In all cases the Ministry of Defence must keep up to date with the actions of tax collectors and co-operate in enforcing their rights and must actively assist the Ministry of Finance in the detainment and arrest of tax evaders until they are brought before court.
  +
*# An illegality is committed if any of the following occur:
  +
*## A government official fails to correctly collect or file taxes due to negligence.
  +
*## An individual fails to correctly file taxes with the intent of reducing the amount of tax paid.
  +
*## Illegalities can be punished by imprisonment for up to 5 years, by a fine set at a reasonable amount or by the confiscation of property as the judge sees fit. Preference should be shown towards a fine as punishment.
  +
* '''Article 12.2 - Income Tax'''
  +
*# Every individual of 18 years of age or older must pay Income Tax should they be eligible as defined by law to do so. To be eligible to pay Income Tax and an individual must do one of the following.
  +
*## Be earning income as defined below and must have resided within Lovia's national borders during the tax year.
  +
*## Be a Lovian citizen earning income as defined below and must be earning income from an individual or corporation which resides within Lovia's national borders.
  +
*### In this case only the income gained from the individual or corporation that resides within Lovia's national borders is eligible for tax.
  +
*# Income is the sum total of the following.
  +
*## Wage and salaries.
  +
*### Wages, salaries and tips recieved by an individual for performing a service for another individual or entity or from another individual or corporation they are employee of, minus any wages, salaries or tips that an individual has given to another individual for being an employee of the concerned individual.
  +
*## Pensions.
  +
*### Pensions or annuity payments recieved by an individual from another individual or corporation minus any pensions or annuity payments that an individual has given to another individual. Pensions and annuity payments are fixed payments over a specified or unspecified period of time.
  +
*## Capital gains.
  +
*### Capital gains received by an individual from another individual or corporation. Capital gains are the profits gained by buying and then selling property, shares or bonds.
  +
*## Lump sums.
  +
*### Lump sums received by an individual from another individual or corporation, minus any lump sums that an individual has given to another individual. Lump sums are single payments of money.
  +
*## Rental income.
  +
*### rental income recieved by an individual from another individual or corporation, minus any rent that an individual has given to another individual. Rental income is when a payment is made for the temporary use of a good, service or property owned by another individual.
  +
*## Dividends.
  +
*### dividends recieved by an individual from a corporation. Dividends are payments made by a corporation to its shareholder members.
  +
*# Income Tax required to be paid is calculated by taking the concerned individuals income and levying a set percentage which goes to the [[Ministry of Finance]].
  +
*## An exemption from this levy may be set, a next number of Lovian Dollars of income may have a set percentage levied and this may be done multiple times. All other income after these bands has a set percent levied.
  +
*# Income Tax must be paid every year on the 1st of March.
  +
*## Unless otherwise requested, the Ministry of Finance will manage the payment of Income Tax for individuals however individuals residing within Lovia have the right to request that they be allowed to manage the payment of their Income Tax.
  +
*## The Ministry of Finance may not refuse this request and must supply the individual with the documentation to file their own taxes.
  +
*# An illegality is committed if any of the following occurs:
  +
*## An individual distributes income to others for the main purpose of reducing the amount of tax paid.
  +
*## An individual evades or otherwise fails to pay said taxes.
  +
*## Illegalities can be punished by imprisonment for up to 5 years, by a fine set at a reasonable amount or by the confiscation of property as the judge sees fit. Preference should be shown towards a fine as punishment.
  +
* '''Article 12.3 - Property Tax'''
  +
*# Every individual or corporation who owns property or land as defined by law within Lovia must pay Property Tax should they be eligible as defined by law to do so. To be eligible to pay Property Tax an individual or corporation must do one of the following.
  +
*## Own property or land within Lovia's national borders.
  +
*# Property is the combination of land and an improvement that has been built upon said land.
  +
*## To avoid confusion property is measured in square metres by taking the distance between the furthest points along the width of the improvement and multiplying them by the distance between the furthest points along the length of the improvement.
  +
*## Property is considered land if the improvements width and length are each no larger than 2 meters in size.
  +
*# Land is land that has not had an improvement built upon it.
  +
*## To avoid confusion land is measured in square metres.
  +
*# Property Tax on property required to be paid is calculated by taking the concerned individual or corporations measured property and levying a set amount which goes to the [[Ministry of Finance]] depending on the amount of measured property owned.
  +
*## An exemption from this levy may be set. All other property has a set levy of Lovian cents per square metre set.
  +
*### Unless the property is under the jurisdiction of the National Park Service, National Monument Service or is Federal or State property in which case all other property has a different levy of Lovian cents per square metre set.
  +
*# Property Tax on land require to be paid is calculated by taking the concerned individual or corporations measured land and levying a set amount which goes to the [[Ministry of Finance]] depending on the amount of measured property owned.
  +
*## An exemption from this levy may be set. All other land has a set levy of Lovian cents per square metre set.
  +
*### Unless the land is under the jurisdiction of the National Park Service, National Monument Service, is Federal or State property or is being used for agricultural purposes, in which case all other land has a different levy of Lovians cents per square metre set.
  +
*# Property Tax must be paid every year on the 1st of March.
  +
*## Unless otherwise requested, the Ministry of Finance will manage the payment of Property Tax for individuals and corporations however individuals and corporations based in Lovia have the right to request that they be allowed to manage the payment of their Property Tax.
  +
*## The Ministry of Finance may not refuse this request and must supply the individual or corporation with the documentation to file their own taxes.
  +
*# An illegality is committed if any of the following occur:
  +
*## An individual or corporation evades or otherwise fails to pay said taxes.
  +
*## Illegalities can be punished by imprisonment for up to 5 years, by a fine set at a reasonable amount or by the confiscation of property as the judge sees fit. Preference should be shown towards confiscation of property as punishment.
  +
* '''Article 12.4 - Imported Sales Tax'''
  +
*# Every individual or corporation which operates within Lovia's national borders must pay Imported Sales Tax should they be defined by law as eligible to do so. To be eligible to pay Imported Sales Tax an individual or corporation must do one of the following.
  +
*## Have brought goods from outside Lovia's national borders into Lovia's national borders.
  +
*## Not be a citizen or be based outside Lovia's national borders.
  +
*# Individuals or corporations who have brought goods brought from outside Lovia's national borders into Lovia's national borders must register the goods with customs officers.
  +
*# Imported Sales Tax is required to be paid on all goods when they are first sold within Lovia's national borders after having been harvested or manufactured outside of them and all services when they are paid for within Lovia's national borders.
  +
*# Worth is the amount of Lovian Dollars the good or service is sold for.
  +
*# Imported Sales Tax required to be paid is calculated by taking the worth of the imported goods when sold and levying a set percentage which goes to the [[Ministry of Finance]].
  +
*## all worth has an exclusive percentage levy set.
  +
*# Imported Sales Tax must be paid every year on the 1st of March.
  +
*## Unless otherwise requested, the Ministry of Finance will manage the payment of Imported Sales Tax for individuals however individuals or corporations residing within Lovia have the right to request that they be allowed to manage the payment of their Imported Sales Tax.
  +
*## The Ministry of Finance may not refuse this request and must supply the individual or corporation with the documentation to file their own taxes.
  +
*# An illegality is committed if any of the following occur:
  +
*## An individual or corporation evades or otherwise fails to pay said taxes.
  +
*## Failure to register all the goods that have been imported due to either intent or by negligence.
  +
*## Illegalities can be punished by imprisonment for up to 5 years, by a fine set at a reasonable amount or by the confiscation of property as the judge sees fit. Preference should be shown towards a fine as punishment.
   
  +
===Voting===
 
====Pro====
 
====Pro====
*<s>{{pro}} 17 Votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 09:33, May 26, 2012 (UTC)</s>
+
*{{Pro}} 14 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 11:33, July 21, 2013 (UTC)
*{{pro}} 8 Votes [[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]] 10:03, May 26, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{Pro}} 7 votes - [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 11:38, July 21, 2013 (UTC)
*{{pro}} 5 votes [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] 10:45, May 26, 2012 (UTC) when Kunarian edit all town pages!
+
*{{Pro}} 8 votes <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 12:45, July 21, 2013 (UTC)
*...
+
*{{Pro}} 5 Votes [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 14:00, July 21, 2013 (UTC) (Marcel has one of my votes now :P)
  +
*{{Pro}} 1 vote [[User:Frijoles333|Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara]] ([[User talk:Frijoles333|talk]]) 17:30, July 21, 2013 (UTC) (My first ever vote in Congress, using the vote Marcus gave me)
  +
*{{Pro}} 4 votes. This seems foolproof enough. [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 20:14, July 22, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 3 votes [[File:Flag of the Hurian Federation.png|30px|border|link=http://hurian-database.wikia.com/wiki/Hurian_Database_Wiki|The Hurian Database Wiki]] [[User:Vivaporius|Vivaporius]]: <small>"[[User talk:Vivaporius|I don't need a slogan]]"</small> 20:49, July 22, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{pro}} 4 votes [[User:Bart K|Bart K]] ([[User talk:Bart K|talk]]) 10:44, July 26, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 2 votes [[User:MartijnM|MartijnM]] ([[User talk:MartijnM|talk]]) 17:54, August 6, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{pro}} 9 votes '''[[User:Happy65|<font color="Teal"> Happy65 </font>]]''' <sup> '''[[User talk:Happy65|<font color="Aqua"> Talk</font>]] [[Conservative Nationalist Party|CNP]] '''</sup>''' [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px]]''' 13:01, August 13, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
   
 
====Contra====
 
====Contra====
*{{contra}} 11 votes - I would like to see a new style that isn't based on residences. We should individually decide what population each hamlet, village, and neighborhood should have, add those up for each town and city, and then combine the cities and add some rural population to get the state. Then add the states to get the nation. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 12:42, May 26, 2012 (UTC)
 
*:You're right. Shall I simply make a proposal of f.e. Oceana in population incl. rural districts? --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 12:48, May 26, 2012 (UTC)
 
*::I've made a proposal for [[User:Ooswesthoesbes/Oshenna populatsia|Oceana]]. It would be very welcome if the other governors could also bring up figures for their states, so we can combine the data and form our first census with rural districts. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 07:49, June 2, 2012 (UTC)
 
*:::Done it. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 18:45, June 2, 2012 (UTC)
 
*::::Oh, sorry, I didn't see this. I'll do it by tomorrow. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 22:25, June 2, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
*...
 
*...
   
 
====Abstain====
 
====Abstain====
*I'm honestly a bit confused by this.--— [[Christopher Costello|<font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello</font>]] <sup>([[User:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi</font>]] • [[User_talk:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Chat</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>What's up</font>]])</sup> 00:20, June 8, 2012 (UTC)
 
*...
 
 
*...
 
*...
   
== 019. Membership of the IWO ==
+
===Comments===
  +
46 pro votes! we need more people to vote! signal everyone! [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP2.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 14:36, August 2, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:Passed as well, finally :) --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 13:06, August 13, 2013 (UTC
  +
::By me :3 '''[[User:Happy65|<font color="Teal"> Happy65 </font>]]''' <sup> '''[[User talk:Happy65|<font color="Aqua"> Talk</font>]] [[Conservative Nationalist Party|CNP]] '''</sup>''' [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px]]''' 13:11, August 13, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::Yes, and several others too :P --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 13:21, August 13, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::: :P [[User:4kant,6|4kant,6]]<sup>[[User talk:4kant,6|FRÅGOR???]]</sup> 13:25, August 13, 2013 (UTC)
   
Members of the Congress, please vote to authorise the signing of the Declaration for the Establishment of the International Wiki Organisation ([[Forum:Second_Chamber/IWO_Declaration|in a side page]]). I apologise in advance for the awful wikicode and Limburgish. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 13:57, June 24, 2012 (UTC)
+
==014. Financial Outline Act==
:The Limburgish is now sorted; feel free, but not obliged, to fix the wikicode, anyone. :P --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 14:03, June 24, 2012 (UTC)
+
#The expenditures and revenue of the Government of Lovia are managed by a budget.
  +
##Expenditures are the outflow of money from the Government, spent in order to maintain the programs and organs of government and support the nation of Lovia and its interests.
  +
##Revenue is the inflow of money into the Government, collected in order to pay for expenditures.
  +
###Revenue includes taxes and tariffs, outlined in the Taxation Act, and any income generated by a program or organ of the Government.
  +
#On April 1 of each calendar year, a budget passed by Congress shall go into effect.
  +
##Such a budget must be passed by a normal majority in Congress during the months of February or March of the same calendar year.
  +
##After April 1 and before December 31 of the same calendar year, all citizens eligible for taxation should outline and pay their taxes to the Government.
  +
###Citizens who do not complete this procedure may be prosecuted for tax evasion by the [[Ministry of Justice]].
  +
##Congress may modify the expenditures of the budget by a normal majority after April 1 to accommodate any unforeseen changes, but not the revenue.
  +
##In the event that no budget is passed by Congress, the budget from the previous year should be extended proportionally for the amount of extra time it is being used until a new budget is passed by Congress.
  +
###In this case, citizens should file and pay their taxes once the newer budget is passed. If they have already filed and pay their taxes for the old budget, a refund will be given once the citizen pays their taxes for the newer budget.
  +
#A budget must include the following items:
  +
##A setting of tax and tariff rates for each tax and tariff explained in the Taxation Act, which may or may not be variable depending on the income or profit of the paying entity.
  +
##A setting of expenditures made by the government.
  +
###Expenditures must meet the necessary costs for the upkeep of all government programs and organs and all other non-discretionary spending.
  +
##An outline of income from non-tax or tariff sources.
  +
#A budget made by the Government should have its revenue be equal to or greater than the total expenditures made by the Government.
  +
##This provision may be ignored in times of national crisis.
  +
##When the federal budget is facing a deficit, the state must borrow money on the financial market.
  +
##When the federal budget has a surplus, it should be used to pay off the country's debt.
  +
###Spending the surplus on new policy can only be done if the new policy is taken up in the budget, lowering the surplus.
  +
###If there is no national debt, the surplus should either be converted to new policy or saved in a reserve fund.
  +
#The [[Ministry of Finance]] is responsible for heading the creation and enforcement of a national budget.
  +
##The Ministry should work alongside Congress, the other Ministries, and the rest of the Government to formulate a budget each year.
  +
#The Government must not overfund or underfund any program or organ of the government within its budget.
   
 
===Voting===
 
===Voting===
 
{{voting}}
 
{{voting}}
 
 
====Pro====
 
====Pro====
*{{pro}} - 6 votes. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 13:59, June 24, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{pro}} 8 votes <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 12:45, July 21, 2013 (UTC)
*{{pro}} 17 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 14:09, June 24, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{Pro}} 5 votes [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 14:02, July 21, 2013 (UTC)
*{{pro}} 4 votes — [[File:Beer.png|22px|link=Christopher_Costello]] [[Christopher_Costello|<font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello</font>]] <sup>([[User:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi</font>]][[User_talk:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Chat</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>What's up</font>]])</sup> 15:55, June 24, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{pro}} 14 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 15:42, July 21, 2013 (UTC)
*{{pro}} 11 votes [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 16:46, June 24, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{Pro}} 1 vote [[User:Frijoles333|Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara]] ([[User talk:Frijoles333|talk]]) 17:31, July 21, 2013 (UTC)
*{{pro}} 5 votes [[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]] 18:48, June 24, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{Pro}} 7 votes - [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 18:11, July 21, 2013 (UTC)
*{{pro}} 10 votes <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 21:56, June 24, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{Pro}} 4 votes. [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 20:14, July 22, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 3 votes [[File:Flag of the Hurian Federation.png|30px|border|link=http://hurian-database.wikia.com/wiki/Hurian_Database_Wiki|The Hurian Database Wiki]] [[User:Vivaporius|Vivaporius]]: <small>"[[User talk:Vivaporius|I don't need a slogan]]"</small> 20:50, July 22, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{pro}} 4 votes [[User:Bart K|Bart K]] ([[User talk:Bart K|talk]]) 10:45, July 26, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{pro}} 5 votes. Everyone seems to think it's a good idea. :) --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 17:08, August 4, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*:Semyon, could you also vote the one above this one? :P --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 08:35, August 5, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 2 votes [[User:MartijnM|MartijnM]] ([[User talk:MartijnM|talk]]) 17:54, August 6, 2013 (UTC)
   
 
====Contra====
 
====Contra====
*{{contra}} 1 vote — [[File:Beer.png|22px|link=Christopher_Costello]] [[Christopher_Costello|<font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello</font>]] <sup>([[User:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi</font>]] • [[User_talk:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Chat</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>What's up</font>]])</sup> 15:56, June 24, 2012 (UTC)
+
*...
*{{contra}} 3 votes [[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]] 18:49, June 24, 2012 (UTC)
 
*{{contra}} 1 vote <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 21:56, June 24, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
 
====Abstain====
 
====Abstain====
 
*...
 
*...
   
{{accepted}} by a 53% majority. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 21:56, June 24, 2012 (UTC)
+
===Comments===
====Comments====
+
53 votes pro! :D (this isn't a constitutional admendment so it passed right?) [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 19:11, August 6, 2013 (UTC)
I will bring this to the Mäöreser Landjszaal as well. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 14:10, June 24, 2012 (UTC)
+
:Yes :) --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 09:29, August 7, 2013 (UTC)
:Please do. :D --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 17:56, June 25, 2012 (UTC)
+
:{{Accepted}} (since Semyon seems to have been neglected his post for months and this isn't the first time other users have helped out with this role :P) [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 20:13, August 13, 2013 (UTC)
::Just to remind you: the Mäöreser law system is efficient, but slow :P I hope to get the results within a week :P --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 08:42, June 26, 2012 (UTC)
+
::So if I understand you correctly, the proposal is accepted because there's some mysterious responsibility I've failed to do? Seems rather illogical to me. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 13:51, September 13, 2013 (UTC)
   
Finally, Mäöres has voted pro with 4 pro and 2 not yet voted :P --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 08:02, July 6, 2012 (UTC)
+
== 018. No confidence ==
   
== 020. Abortion Regulation Act ==
+
Congress is now pretty much completely inactive. It no longer serves its purpose of representing the Lovian people. Furthermore, recent political debates such as the future of the monarchy, whether Mr. Ilava should be created Heretow, and the recent creation of new settlements would be best discussed in the context of an election, so the people are able to make the final decision. This is especially true considering that a number of parties have disbanded and reformed since the election - I'm thinking of the SCP and Labour/RLP in particular. A renewed mandate for all politicians in congress would definitely not be a bad thing. Finally, it's well-known that elections in Lovia lead to increased activity. New and enthusiastic congressmen, forced to fight for election or reëlection, will be sure to rejuvenate the legislature.
(Social Law Book, Federal Law)
+
# Abortus Provocatus (referred to hereafter as abortion), defined as a willingly induced termination of pregnancy before fetal viability, is considered legal only when:
+
Therefore, without intending any criticism of the government, with the passing of this motion, Congress withdraws its support for the Ilava II Government and calls for immediate federal elections. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 19:43, July 25, 2013 (UTC)
## Carried out by a qualified physician, registered in a hospital recognized by the [[Ministry of Health]].
 
## Permission has been given by the executing physician and at least one other, non-involved physician.
 
## Executed no sooner than two weeks after the first consultation.
 
## Executed within the first twelve weeks of the pregnancy, except in circumstances considered in section 2.
 
## One or more of the following:
 
### The mother has been impregnated against her will.
 
### The risk to the physical health of the mother is considered to be one hundred times greater than the average risk of childbirth.
 
### The fetus is considered to be inviable before the twenty-fifth week of the pregnancy.
 
## In every case, the mother has to give her approval to carry out the abortion.
 
# Abortion after the first twelve weeks of the pregnancy is considered legal only when:
 
## Carried out by a qualified physician, registered in a hospital recognized by the [[Ministry of Health]].
 
## Permission has been given by the executing physician and at least two other, non-involved physicians.
 
## Executed no sooner than seven days after the first consultation.
 
## One or more of the following:
 
### The risk to the physical health of the mother is considered to be one hundred times greater than the usual risk of childbirth.
 
### The fetus is considered to be inviable before the twenty-fifth week of the pregnancy.
 
## In every case, the mother has to give her approval to carry out the abortion.
 
# Before carrying out an abortion, the executing physician must always take the following measures:
 
## To notify the patient of all health risks involved with the abortion of pregnancy.
 
## To remind the parent of several other possibilities for undesired children.
 
### Any alternatives to abortion must be legal and comply with the Adoption and Orphanage Act.
 
## To ensure themselves of the patient's desire to carry out the abortion.
 
# If an abortion is carried out illegally, the following consequences may follow:
 
## The executing physician will have their medical license revoked.
 
## The executing physician will be liable to prosecution for murder and held responsible for the costs of the operation.
 
## The mother will be fined $10,000.
 
   
 
===Voting===
 
===Voting===
 
{{voting}}
 
{{voting}}
  +
====Pro====
  +
*{{pro}} --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 19:43, July 25, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*...
   
  +
====Contra====
  +
*{{contra}} 8 votes <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 01:06, July 26, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{contra}} 4 votes [[User:Bart K|Bart K]] ([[User talk:Bart K|talk]]) 10:46, July 26, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{contra}} 5 votes - I look forward to a rejuvenated system, but I am not ready yet. <span style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:90%;">— [[Christopher_Costello|<font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello</font>]] <sup>([[User:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi</font>]] • [[User_talk:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Chat</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>What's up</font>]])</sup></span> 22:49, August 4, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Contra}} 2 votes [[User:MartijnM|MartijnM]] ([[User talk:MartijnM|talk]]) 17:55, August 6, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{contra}} 9 votes '''[[User:Happy65|<font color="Teal"> Happy65 </font>]]''' <sup> '''[[User talk:Happy65|<font color="Aqua"> Talk</font>]] [[Conservative Nationalist Party|CNP]] '''</sup>''' [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px]]''' 12:40, August 13, 2013 (UTC)
  +
====Abstain====
  +
*{{Abstention}} 4 votes. With the two new votes, Congress seems reasonably active. Hasn't the mid-term elections period already passed, anyway? [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 20:48, July 25, 2013 (UTC)
  +
**It may be active but you need enough of it to be active for more than 66% of Congress to consistently vote, we don't have that. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP2.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 21:12, July 25, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Abstention}} 14 votes --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 10:07, July 26, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*...
  +
  +
====Comments====
  +
I would only comment back to Mr.Seymon that "without intending any critcism of him" that he did not vote on either very important economic measures and should vote on them before we try to disband congress. [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 20:14, July 25, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:OK fair enough. However, bluntly put, trying to roleplay the economy doesn't work and therefore I can't work up any interest in financial legislation. I'd rather set up a cultural organisation or something. :) --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 17:06, August 4, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::Haa sorry was having a bad day. I gree with your comments and the reason for the vote of no confidence, but seems as if the votes for it just aren't there so we shall wait to Novemeber and January. [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 17:43, August 4, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::::I think we can roleplay the economy. Just make up little news issues. <span style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:90%;">— [[Christopher_Costello|<font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello</font>]] <sup>([[User:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi</font>]] • [[User_talk:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Chat</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>What's up</font>]])</sup></span> 22:50, August 4, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
== 019. Donia for King ==
  +
  +
Alright, this's been takin' way de long :P This vote is for officially replacing King Dimitri I with King Sebastian I, to be played by Donia (The Master's Voice).
  +
  +
We need a 50% majority. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 10:33, August 13, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
===Voting===
  +
{{voting}}
 
====Pro====
 
====Pro====
*{{pro}} 17 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 10:03, July 16, 2012 (UTC)
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*{{pro}} 14 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 10:33, August 13, 2013 (UTC)
*<strike>{{Pro}} 1 vote - [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 18:09, July 16, 2012 (UTC) (PCP)</strike>
+
*{{pro}} 9 votes '''[[User:Happy65|<font color="Teal"> Happy65 </font>]]''' <sup> '''[[User talk:Happy65|<font color="Aqua"> Talk</font>]] [[Conservative Nationalist Party|CNP]] '''</sup>''' [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px]]''' 13:35, August 13, 2013 (UTC)
*{{pro}} 5 votes - [[user:Wabba The I|Wabba The I (Jhon Lewis - CCPL)]] 20:10 July 16, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{pro}} 7 votes [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP2wt.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 16:11, August 13, 2013 (UTC)
*{{pro}} 9 votes <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 02:21, July 24, 2012 (UTC) (LDP)
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*{{pro}} 4 votes - Why? Because I don't like the current monarch. [[File:Flag of the Hurian Federation.png|30px|border|link=http://hurian-database.wikia.com/wiki/Hurian_Database_Wiki|The Hurian Database Wiki]] [[User:Vivaporius|Vivaporius]]: <small>"[[User talk:Vivaporius|I don't need a slogan]]"</small> 20:28, August 13, 2013 (UTC)
*{{pro}} 9 votes [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 12:43, July 24, 2012 (UTC)
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*{{pro}} 5 votes <span style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:90%;">— [[Christopher_Costello|<font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello</font>]] <sup>([[User:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi</font>]] • [[User_talk:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Chat</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>What's up</font>]])</sup></span> 14:13, August 16, 2013 (UTC)
*{{pro}} 6 votes --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 19:35, August 8, 2012 (UTC)
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*{{pro}} 4 votes [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] ([[User talk:Wabba The I|talk]]) 20:58, August 20, 2013 (UTC)
*{{pro}} 1 vote. [[User:Bart K|Bart K]] ([[User talk:Bart K|talk]]) 09:36, August 25, 2012 (UTC)
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*{{pro}} 4 votes. [[User:Bart K|Bart K]] ([[User talk:Bart K|talk]]) 14:24, August 22, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{pro}} 5 votes. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 16:48, August 30, 2013 (UTC)
   
 
====Contra====
 
====Contra====
*{{contra}} 13 votes - [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 18:09, July 16, 2012 (UTC) (GPL,Labour,ARP,Walden) - Strike the clause 3.3 and make 3.2 more understandable
+
*{{contra}} 8 votes, and revert the changes to Alexander. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 17:15, August 13, 2013 (UTC)
*{{contra}} 2 votes <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 02:21, July 24, 2012 (UTC) (LAP)
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*{{Contra}} 5 votes - Hell no! Referendum on Monarchy or Republic, then if Monarchy then prefered choice. I thought that was the way it would be done. [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 17:42, August 13, 2013 (UTC)
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*{{Contra}} 4 votes. Yeah, I thought the same thing as Marcus as well. :P [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 20:10, August 13, 2013 (UTC)
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*{{Contra}} 1 vote. Hey! Who took my vote off! And I'm voting contra for reasons I've already stated [[User:Frijoles333|Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara]] ([[User talk:Frijoles333|talk]]) 09:39, August 15, 2013 (UTC)
   
 
====Abstain====
 
====Abstain====
*{{abstention}} 2 votes Until there is more clarification in 3.2 (or expansion). [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 19:10, July 17, 2012 (UTC)
 
*{{abstention}} 1 vote (PCP) Thomas Bale comment: "As a liberal conservative I understand women's rights, but needs clarification" [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 21:13, July 17, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
*...
 
*...
   
====Comments====
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===Comments===
We should put more detail into the law and perhaps explain what options may be considered "legal alternatives" to abortion. Cause under this a doctor could perfectly get her to sell her baby on the black market. Something sad, but it does happen and we should strive to minimize the number of loopholes in our law.[[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 19:46, July 16, 2012 (UTC)
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I don't think this is legal, so we will have to get a 67% vote, because we are ousting a king, which the constitution does not allow. :P <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 17:15, August 13, 2013 (UTC)
   
Not the first thing i thought of, but i mostly voted contra because of the vaugeness...hopefully more clear language will get people to vote contra .[[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 22:31, July 16, 2012 (UTC)
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:It is both legal and legitimate and a 50% majority will suffice. And [[Prince Alexander]] ain't going anywhere. We've been over this already, Timey. [[User:The Master&#39;s Voice|The glorious First Consul of Rome]] ([[User talk:The Master&#39;s Voice|talk]]) 18:49, August 13, 2013 (UTC)
   
Well, we would have to create a separate law about adoption and orphanage. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 09:28, July 17, 2012 (UTC)
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::Wrong, the Constitution has nothing stopping Congress from changing the Monarch neither does the law. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP2wt.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 00:02, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
   
: It is vague, so we need to specify which alternatives are legal and what the punishment is for engaging in illegal alternatives. We should also start an awareness campaign on good alternatives, cuase in the end having lots of abortions isn't good. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 17:29, July 17, 2012 (UTC)
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:::I'm pretty sure 1B 2 and 4 can be interpreted that this is not allowed. Just because it's not explicitly forbidden doesn't mean it's allowed. :P <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 14:29, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
::As I said above: these alternatives should not be placed in an abortion law. If this law is accepted, we can start working on an Adoption and Orphanage Act. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 09:58, July 18, 2012 (UTC)
 
:::See now honestly I'm seeing this is now partisanly driven and not trying to further this law. I just think then this furthers the right for a women to choose and then i think women are smart enough to know what they do with ther bodies. [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 17:49, July 18, 2012 (UTC)
 
::::Well, it's about time we're getting laws passed, but it seems nobody's willing to cooperate. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 17:17, July 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
::::::We should create an Adoption/orphanage act (we should also include foster care) and pass it along with the abortion act. Right now my only issue is with sec. 3.2: To remind the parent of several other possibilities for undesired children. We should either list the possibilities in subsections to 3.2 or or have a single subsection saying "Any alternatives to abortion must be legal and comply with section x.x of the Adoption and Orphanage act. I will not vote contra because it is overall good but it should be sent back to the 1st chamber to fix this. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 17:38, July 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
:::::::That's not necessary. We could fix it right now if you want to. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 16:46, July 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
::::::::Sure. If we can fix it here it would be great. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 17:47, July 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
I believe that the new clauses had an "Or" added, while older classes didn't get an "Or". I think that should be fixed. Although, personally, I would prefer to not have those "Or"s, and instead simply have an "any of the following" in the earlier clauses. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 23:19, July 21, 2012 (UTC)
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What's up with these hipster monarchs? Can't we get one ''adult'' ruler, not some random weirdo with a guitar? [[File:Flag of the Hurian Federation.png|30px|border|link=http://hurian-database.wikia.com/wiki/Hurian_Database_Wiki|The Hurian Database Wiki]] [[User:Vivaporius|Vivaporius]]: <small>"[[User talk:Vivaporius|I don't need a slogan]]"</small> 20:30, August 13, 2013 (UTC)
   
==021. 2012 Federal Police Reform==
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:Alexander won't be King, [[Prince Sebastian]] will be, Dimitri's cousin. Whose pictures are pictures of me myself. As you read his biography you will see Sebastian is a classy guy, a former diplomat and a learned man. A serious and hard-working man in a stable marriage. [[User:The Master&#39;s Voice|The glorious First Consul of Rome]] ([[User talk:The Master&#39;s Voice|talk]]) 20:32, August 13, 2013 (UTC)
===Preface===
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::TMV - It's 67% to change the constitution, 50% to Federal Law. 67% is needed on this vote because the Constitution says who the monarch is not federal law. So again, it needs 67% vote! [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 23:22, August 13, 2013 (UTC)
The present situation:
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:::It's not changing the Constitution, no law forbids a change in Monarchy via the Congress and as the Congress is the highest legislative power in the land it cannot be barred from doing so. Only an amendment to the law, restricting Congress's powers would change this. Also all executive power is vested in the Government, so in many ways Oos could oust Dimitri and install TMV, not truly democratic but he has the power. One thing Lovia lacks is a limitation on Government power but to be honest what do you expect when the constitution was written by those in favour of over-arching government. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP2wt.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 00:02, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
*The Federal Police has an unnecessary number of sub-divisions.
 
*These sub-divisions are not divided in any feasible way, and their descriptions are very broad.
 
*Some sub-divisions are improperly classified as "units", while others are considered branches and others aren't labeled at all.
 
*Individual traffic units have been localized to serve in individual states, and operate much like local police without much cooperation between other local units, which can be troublesome.
 
*There are supposedly local bureaus for individual states, yet they aren't documented anywhere on the site.
 
*It is unknown how these local bureaus would relate to the sub-divisions.
 
*There is no clearly-defined rank structure.
 
*There is no clearly-defined structure in general.
 
   
===Reform plan===
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May I just say that I favour a referendum of the people although considering Congress are the elected representatives of such people, this is legitimate but some may question by how much. Personally I continue to favour a continued Monarchy for the benefits they bring and the amount of work that will be have to be done to correct a massive change in Lovia and I favour TMV as monarch for the simple reason of needing an active and strong leadership. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP2wt.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 00:05, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
These items are being proposed:
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#The method of the line of succession to the Lovian throne is absolute cognatic primogeniture. Therefore, the person who legally inherits the Lovian throne, after the previous ruling monarch has either deceased or abdicated, is the person who is the eldest child of the previous monarch. If the monarch had no children, the throne goes to the next oldest sibling, followed by younger siblings and cousins.
*The Federal Police will become known as the Lovian Federal Police to make it more distinct and to make documentation easier.
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##All descendants of Arthur I of Lovia are part of the line of succession, regardless of any activity, except for those that have requested that they be removed. (Section 2, 2.1)
*The current, "local bureaus" will be re-organized as precincts. They will eliminate the need for individual local police agencies. They will be:
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It is apart of the Constitution, I would argue since you are changing the line of sucession, it would take a 67% majority.Does he have that power really? Tbh I don't know, I know he has the power to disband congress (a bit much don't you agree?). Well I've argued for republic, but i'd like to see the Monarchy/Republic referendum first please! [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 00:20, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
**Clymene Federal Police Precinct (CFPP)
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:You are not changing the line of succession. What is happening is that Congress is voting to impeach the Monarch and impose a new Monarch in their place. There is nothing written on that within the law, nothing for it but as a key point nothing against it, therefore it can take place. Besides the constitution only covers inheriting the throne and line of succession NOT (and maybe this is something to correct) Congress impeachment nor Congress imposing a new Monarch, which as the highest legislative authority it can do. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP2wt.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 01:53, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
**Kings Federal Police Precinct (SKFPP)
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::The constitution already has this covered; Alexander will request not to be included in the Line of Succession for personal reasons. Consider him having done that already. Leaves us with the next of kin: the son of a previous monarch. But, alas, Arthur III who was King before Dimitri has no descendents in the LoS as they requested to not be included. So we go to the closest thing we have, which is Dimitri's oldest paternal cousin, Prince Sebastian. To do so is perfectly legal. So yes, we '''can''' oust Dimitri. And yes, we '''can''' select his cousin to replace him. We can and we will. As for the becoming a republic part, Oos brought this up earlier but I might as well say it again: to cleanse all the pages on this site of any mention of a crown and royals would be a bitch, and there is absolutely zero added value to do that no matter what any unimaginative American republican might say. I know you hated King George and all for his grand colonial bitchery but don't be hatin' on Sebastian. I'll see to it that he be a good and loyal citizen of Lovia and a truly inspiring patriotic individual. It will be a cultural enrichment to our nation and an overall good development and it sure beats having a monarch who is never around and forsakes his royal duties. [[User:The Master&#39;s Voice|The glorious First Consul of Rome]] ([[User talk:The Master&#39;s Voice|talk]]) 06:08, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
**North Sylvania Federal Police Precinct (NSFPP)
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::We don't have to ''retcon'' the monarchy, we could just ''replace'' it. [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 06:20, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
**Noble City Bay Area Federal Police Precinct (NCBAFPP or NCFPP)
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::That too takes time, and would only be done on a personal whim of the minority of the site's users. There is no added value, but this discussion is not on whether or not to be a monarchy, it is on whether or not Prince Sebastian (me) should replace King Dimitri and give Lovia an active monarch again. Ler's keep the discussions seperate. Now Topaz if you'd like to change your vote I'd be most obliged. See, once I start acting as King and you dislike my performance you can always hold yet another referendum and have me ousted and the monarchy abolished. It's quite simple. Now all I'm asking, and I believe this to be perfectly reasonable, is for you to give me a chance to prove myself. For actions speak louder then words ever could. [[User:The Master&#39;s Voice|The glorious First Consul of Rome]] ([[User talk:The Master&#39;s Voice|talk]]) 06:35, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
**Oceana Federal Police Precinct (OFPP)
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:My opposition is more to Oos's handling of the situation (ignoring one of the referendums) than to the concept of you as King per say. And anyway, weren't most of the actions you were planning to take just words (i.e. speeches and all that jazz), anyway? [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 06:57, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
**Seven Federal Police Precinct (SFPP)
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::I understand your objections, and considering that I'm thinking of writing up an act to do with this situation. Also yes the actions of TMV as Monarch were mainly due to be speeches and simple actions really, just making the Monarchy likeable for the whole of Lovia again as well as making it active which I dare say would be a boon to Lovia both IC and OOC, boosting the activity of the wikia. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP2wt.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 08:14, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
*Sub-divisions will be completely overhauled and re-structured as individual bureaus. They will be:
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:Oh, also, by electing you, aren't we making you more of a president than a king anyway? [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 06:59, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
**Lovian Federal Security Bureau
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::If your opposition is not to me being a King then change your vote into a yes as right now, you are voting against me being a king and not against Oos. He already is Oceana's [[Heretow]] after all. And yes I would hold speeches but I'll also represent Lovia at sports events and weddings and the like, and promote the image of our nation abroad in other wikinations. And I am not being elected, I am simply taking over from a monarch unable and unwilling to perform his royal duties. That does not make me a president. This vote is simply on whether or not the people support me taking over. If you support me taking over from Dimitri then vote on that. The monarchy versus republic discussion is a whole different ballgame despite some people who would like it to be handled as one issue. The vote's up now, my cards are on the table. If you do not oppose me being Dimitri's replacement, then vote and make it so. [[User:The Master&#39;s Voice|The glorious First Consul of Rome]] ([[User talk:The Master&#39;s Voice|talk]]) 07:07, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
***The primary and most visible of the bureaus, its purpose is typically just to patrol the precinct and to respond to local threats.
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::@Topaz: Not really, we're more of making the Monarchy Elective and in many ways by doing that we're democratising the position and making it responsible and answerable to the Lovian people via Congress. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP2wt.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 08:14, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
**Lovian Federal Investigations Bureau
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:Weren't we intending to make this a referendum of the Lovian citizens (instead of a Congress vote) anyway? Isn't that why the Referendum Act was created? [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 08:20, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
***Its purpose is to provide a less direct response to crime in cases where some detective work is called for.
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::'''We shall make a referendum on whether to keep the Monarchy''' HOWEVER I believe this should happen after we are able to experience what it is like with an actually active Monarchy that contributes to the nation and gives us real leadership. This trial period should be a good time, around 6 months, so that we can really experience it, after this time we should call a referendum and decide whether we want to keep the new and improved Monarchy. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP2wt.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 08:44, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
**Lovian Federal Traffic Security Bureau
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::Wasn't ''this'' meant to be part of a referendum as well, though (whether to replace Dimi or not). Also, wouldn't a Congress vote like this require some sort of IC reason for the Congress to abdicate Dimitri (as an IC abdication of Dimitri would require a different vote - who to replace him with (the line of succession problems around Alexander etc. might connect to that)). [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 08:51, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
***Its domain is the highways of Lovia, where its handles everything from enforcing the rules of the engaging in high-speed pursuits.
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:::Well IC, the argument could be that he's unpopular, caused various revolts in co-operation with unpopular governments and is rarely seen. Also this isn't an abdication but rather an impeachment and so the line of succession does not apply. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP2wt.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 09:38, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
**Lovian Federal Coastal Security Bureau
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Okay, this is too much to read for me :P If anything interesting has been said in this discussion, you guys know where to find my talk page. Otherwise, this is a 50%. Why? For the simple reason it is not unconstitutional and the ew monarch fits what has been discribed in the constitution:
***On an island nation such as Lovia, security is just as important out at sea as it is on land. Its job is to prevent illegal activity in the space between the states.
+
* 1B1: descendant of the first Lovian monarch (yes); 1B1.1: either male of female (yes)
***The [[Coastal Police]] will become one with this bureau.
+
* 1B2: absolute cognatic primogeniture (yes); 1B2.1.: requested that they be removed (case Alexander: could easily be fixed, family puts pressure on Alexander, he removes himself from line of succession)
**Lovian Federal Counter-terrorism Bureau
+
* 1B3-7: irrelevant
***The name is pretty self-explanatory here. Its job is to counter large-scale movements of organized crime.
+
So, we don't need a constitutional amendment and we're not doing anything illegal. Therefore, a 50% majority is enough. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 09:36, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
**Lovian Royal Guard
 
***A small unit dedicated to protecting the royal family and providing them with their own security. It has been known to extend its protection towards the Prime Minister and congresspeople also. The Royal Guard is a special case because it lead by a specially-appointed Colonel and is stationed in the Noble City Bay Area Federal Police Precinct.
 
***The Royal Guard sub-division already exists, so this will be the only aspect of the Federal Police that won't need to be altered much.
 
*Each precinct will contain roughly a [[Wikipedia:Platoon|platoon]] of members from each bureau (except for the Royal Guard bureau in all precincts other than the NCBAFPP).
 
*The Specialized Forces unit will be dissolved entirely but thats okay because they never did anything anyway.
 
*The rank structure that will be used can be found [[User:Pikapi/Federal Police Officer Ranks|here]].
 
**Anyone above the student rank of Cadet classifies as an officer.
 
***Those who hold the title of Corporal or Corporal First Class are commonly referred to as "Officers" if they serve in any bureau other than Federal Investigations. The proper Federal Investigations equivalent is "Detective" or "Investigator".
 
*Those who hold the title of Cadet are not allowed to serve until they become full officers.
 
*Corporals are standard infantry, and typically serve as unit members unified under a higher-ranking team leader.
 
**As long as there is no higher-ranking officer available, Corporal First Classes are put in charge of lesser ranking officers in their unit.
 
*Lieutenants typically lead a [[Wikipedia:Fireteam|fireteam]] or [[Wikipedia:Squad|squad]] composed of lesser-ranking officers.
 
*Commanders typically lead a squad composed of lesser-ranking officers.
 
*Each precinct will be lead by a Colonel.
 
**Colonels can command anything up-to a [[Wikipedia:Platoon|platoon]] of lesser-ranking officers at once.
 
*Each Bureau will be lead by a Chief.
 
**A Deputy Chief will serve as an advisor to their bureau's Chief.
 
*The Chief of the Federal Police is the ultimate leader of the Federal Police.
 
**The Chief of the Federal Police does not have a deputy. All of the individual bureaus' Chiefs will form a council and serve as advisors to the Chief of the Federal Police.
 
   
===Terms===
+
I think it is illegal, just because there is no provision saying the monarch can't be removed doesn't mean they can. :P <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 14:29, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
*[[Rosana de Oliveira-Torres]] will retain her position as Chief of the Federal Police.
+
:The reverse could be said too: just because there is no provision sating the monarch can be removed, doesn't mean they can't. In this case, we can do it. If the law has no provision saying we can breathe, we still can (and should) :P --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 15:11, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
*[[Christopher Costello]], who is currently in command of the [[Coastal Police]], will inherit the position of Chief of the Federal Coastal Security Bureau.
+
:In this case the Monarch can completely be removed because Congress is the highest legislative power in the land with all powers (bar those that are devolved to the states) invested in it. And you of all people should know that if there is no provision against an action, the action is fully legal, such as the use of Marijuana in Lovia which is completely legal simply because it hasn't been made illegal. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP2wt.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 15:18, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
*[[Lars Washington]], who is currently in command of the FP's investigations unit, will inherit the position of Chief of the Federal Investigations Bureau.
+
I think the Constitution is perfectly clear on the matter. :P The first clause states that 'the ruling monarch is the person who legally inherited the throne from the previous ruling monarch.' The second clause then clarifies on the meaning of 'legal inherited': the person who '''legally inherits''' the Lovian throne, '''''after the previous ruling monarch has either deceased or abdicated''''', is the person who is the eldest child of the previous monarch. If the monarch had no children, the throne goes to the '''''next oldest sibling''''', followed by younger siblings and cousins.' Therefore, there are two reasons why this proposal is unconstitutional (and therefore requires a 67% majority):
*The "Bureau Chiefs" from the current system will become Colonels of their respective precincts.
+
#The previous monarch has to either die or abdicate. Congress is not given authority to depose the monarch.
*We will need a list of candidates for Chiefs to lead the unclaimed bureaus and Colonels to lead the unclaimed precincts.
+
#Even if Dimitri ceased to become king, for whatever reason, Alexander would automatically become king, unless he chose to remove himself from the LoS. Once again, Congress has no authority to remove him.
*Pikapi and anyone who is willing to help gets to overhaul and update the Federal Police article with this new information.
+
So while this bill can pass, it has to have a 67% majority to overrule the constitutional problems. :) --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 19:28, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
*Each individual precinct and bureau will get an article of its own.
+
:While I think this could be debated I do think that there needs to be better clarity in the Constitution. Although I think Semyon has actually made a point that I think I missed, although you only need a 67% majority to change constitutional law, which is not what is occurring, so technically a 51% majority would suffice as you aren't changing the law, although again I think this point could also be heavily debated, never the less I think that this debate about percentages needed will come to little meaning until after the referendum as I do not think this particular proposal will be passed. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP2wt.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 22:14, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
*DimiTalen might need to create us some logos and seals.
+
::We are not bypassing the constitution when we simply say [[Prince Alexander]], for whatever reasons he may have, chooses not to be in the Line of Succession anymore. Therefore [[Prince Sebastian]] automatically becomes the next of kin and therefore King. It is perfectly legal and not against the constitution in the slightest. 
  +
::Another thing we should consider is this... we may oust Dimitri through the constitution. Say that his dwindling popularity cost him his throne. But what I suggest ages back in the Pub was that we simply write he steps down for personal reasons, and with his brother out of the picture the only logical choice remaining is his cousin Sebastian. See this vote not as a vote to "oust Dimitri", but rather as a vote on whether or not people agree with the agreed upon storyline. By doing so, and having this background story in the back of our heads as we go through this procedure, I think we can all agree on the fact that none of what are doing here is actively against the constitution. And all we do here is speed up a process, for reasons I consider to be perfectly reasonable. Dimitri will not be ousted. He will '''abdicate'''. And his brother '''gives up his claim to the throne'''. At which point Sebastian, as Semyon so kindly pointed out, '''legally inherits the throne'''. Why make it any harder on ourselves? Realism and logic can go hand in hand. Everybody wins. [[User:The Master&#39;s Voice|The glorious First Consul of Rome]] ([[User talk:The Master&#39;s Voice|talk]]) 22:28, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::"Agreeing upon a storyline" would be an OOC discussion/vote, though, and isn't Congress an IC entity as well? :P [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 08:01, August 15, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::That's why we've created the OOC referendum in the pub. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 08:49, August 15, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::The Referendum Act implies the creation of a "[[Forum:Referendum]]", and anonymous are never really reliable. :P [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 09:14, August 15, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::::Fixed, anyway, the referendum is not anonymous.. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 09:52, August 15, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::::Oh, okay, that was created after the earlier discussions. Should we not delay this vote then, until after that referendum? [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 08:44, August 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::::Depends. If this vote has a positive outcome, we can keep it. If it has a negative one, then we have to create a new vote and see if we really have a democratic government listening to the will of the people. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 08:55, August 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::::By "positive" and "negative", I presume you mean "similar to the referendum" and "not similar to the referendum"? :P [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 09:00, August 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::::::Eh... I mean positive=referendum is pro :P --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 09:06, August 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::::::We can't really know the result of this vote, nor the referendum, yet, so wouldn't it be more sensible to say whether the two results would be ''alike'' or not? [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 09:23, August 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::::::Eh.. I don't really understand that though :P --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 09:38, August 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
== 020. Update [[NSO]] ==
  +
  +
*The current exisiting cities are:
  +
**[[Noble City]]
  +
***The recognized neighborhoods of Noble City are:
  +
****[[Artista]]
  +
****[[Bayside]]
  +
****[[Citizen Corner]]
  +
****[[Downtown]]
  +
****[[Industrial Park]]
  +
****[[King's Gardens]]
  +
****[[Little Europe]]
  +
****[[Little Frisco]]
  +
****[[Long Road]]
  +
****[[Mandarin Village]]
  +
****[[New Town]]
  +
****[[Old Harbor]]
  +
****[[The Mall]]
  +
****[[Trading Quarter]]
  +
****[[Transcity]]
  +
**[[Newhaven]]
  +
***The recognized neighborhoods of Newhaven are:
  +
****[[Abby Springs]]
  +
****[[East River]]
  +
****[[Malipa]]
  +
****[[Downtown Newhaven|Newhaven Downtown]]
  +
****[[Old Port]]
  +
****[[Pines]]
  +
**[[Hurbanova]]
  +
***The recognized neighborhoods of Hurbanova are:
  +
****[[Drake Town]]
  +
****[[Hurbanova#Downtown|Hurbanova Downtown]]
  +
****[[Millstreet]]
  +
****[[Newport-Neighborhood]]
  +
****[[Overbanken-Neighborhood]]
  +
**[[Sofasi]]
  +
***The recognized nieghborhoods of Sofasi are:
  +
****[[Hightech Valley]]
  +
****[[Intercity]]
  +
****[[Milerose]]
  +
****[[Sofasi#Town_Map|Sofasi Downtown]]
  +
*The current existing Towns are:
  +
**[[East Hills]]
  +
**[[Kinley]]
  +
***The recognized neighborhoods of Kinley are:
  +
****[[Amish Kinley]] (also recognized as a dependent Local Religious Community)
  +
****[[Canterbury]]
  +
****[[Old Kinley]]
  +
****[[St Stephens]]
  +
**[[Novosevensk]]
  +
**[[Portland]]
  +
***The recognized neighborhoods of Portland are:
  +
****[[Bayfield]]
  +
****[[Hurket-on-Kings]]
  +
**[[Train Village]]
  +
***The recognized nieghborhoods of Train Village are:
  +
****[[Nicholasville]]
  +
****Train Village Downtown
  +
*The current existing Villages are:
  +
**[[Abington]]
  +
**[[Adoha]]
  +
***The recognized neighborhoods of Adoha are:
  +
****Adoha Downtown
  +
****[[Ferguson Beach Village]]
  +
**[[Beaverwick]]
  +
**[[Charleston]]
  +
**[[Clave Rock]]
  +
**[[Cornwall]]
  +
**[[Dien Village]]
  +
**[[Nordhorn]]
  +
**[[Oostermond]]
  +
**[[Plains]]
  +
**[[Pool]]
  +
**[[Righow]]
  +
**[[Westmark]]
  +
*The current existing Hamlets are:
  +
**[[Albany]]
  +
**[[Bardeyow]]
  +
**[[Bergdorf]]
  +
**[[Beswijk]]
  +
**[[Boborbrod]]
  +
**[[Boshem]]
  +
**[[Boynitz]]
  +
**[[Brunswick]]
  +
**[[Burguestour]]
  +
**[[Burke's Dam]]
  +
**[[Bytack]]
  +
**[[Carlhaven]]
  +
**[[Centreville]]
  +
**[[Clinton]]
  +
**[[Coal Town]]
  +
**[[Cold Hill]]
  +
**[[Douglas]]
  +
**[[Dubnitz]]
  +
**[[Easthope]]
  +
**[[Eastwood]]
  +
**[[Estarois]]
  +
**[[Feltmolen]]
  +
**[[Fort Johnson]]
  +
**[[Freetown]]
  +
**[[Glesga]]
  +
**[[Grensville]]
  +
**[[Hamfield]]
  +
**[[Hawke's Wood]]
  +
**[[Headland Lakes]]
  +
**[[Heighnow]]
  +
**[[Hewlett]]
  +
**[[Hierland]]
  +
**[[Jason's Ranch]]
  +
**[[Karlhaven]]
  +
**[[Kirkgate]]
  +
**[[Koningsdorp]]
  +
**[[Kustwijk]]
  +
**[[Lemburg]]
  +
**[[Lisney]]
  +
**[[Long Brook]]
  +
**[[Magna Augusta]]
  +
**[[Manchester]]
  +
**[[Martenray]]
  +
**[[Merrimack]]
  +
**[[Milton]]
  +
**[[Neale Downs]]
  +
**[[Newcastle]]
  +
**[[Newmouth]]
  +
**[[New Aberdeen]]
  +
**[[Newport-Forest]]
  +
**[[Neuberg]]
  +
**[[Nordendort]]
  +
**[[Nóngyè]]
  +
**[[Oostdorp]]
  +
**[[Orwnitz]]
  +
**[[Overbanken-Forest]]
  +
**[[Pierresville]]
  +
**[[Rosendorp]]
  +
**[[Rosswood]]
  +
**[[Rybachye]]
  +
**[[Scotland]]
  +
**[[Severnybana]]
  +
**[[Shepby]]
  +
**[[Skelington]]
  +
**[[Slowane]]
  +
**[[Smithston]]
  +
**[[Stanley]]
  +
**[[Steenveld]]
  +
**[[Sternaw]]
  +
**[[Sunderland]]
  +
**[[Thameen]]
  +
**[[Timber Harbor]]
  +
**[[Topolcane]]
  +
**[[Tshadsa]]
  +
**[[Tyrstead]]
  +
**[[Verland]]
  +
**[[Vrabelvrutke]]
  +
**[[Westen-Holm]]
  +
**[[Westwall]]
  +
**[[Willard]]
  +
**[[Xiandu]]
  +
  +
We need a 50% majority. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 17:53, August 21, 2013 (UTC)
   
 
===Voting===
 
===Voting===
 
{{voting}}
 
{{voting}}
 
 
====Pro====
 
====Pro====
#{{pro}} 5 votes — [[File:Beer.png|22px|link=Christopher_Costello]] [[Christopher_Costello|<font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello</font>]] <sup>([[User:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi</font>]][[User_talk:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Chat</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>What's up</font>]])</sup> 16:51, August 21, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{pro}} 14 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 17:53, August 21, 2013 (UTC)
#{{pro}} 11 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 20:56, August 21, 2012 (UTC) (CCPL)
+
*{{Pro}} 1 vote [[User:Frijoles333|Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara]] ([[User talk:Frijoles333|talk]]) 18:19, August 21, 2013 (UTC)
#{{pro}} 11 votes. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 02:17, August 22, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{Pro}} 7 votes - seeming as this would make the list easier to update - [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP2wt.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 18:59, August 21, 2013 (UTC)
#{{pro}} 6 votes - though I'm not sure it needs to be voted through. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 10:16, August 22, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{Pro}} 4 votes [[File:Flag of the Hurian Federation.png|30px|border|link=http://hurian-database.wikia.com/wiki/Hurian_Database_Wiki|The Hurian Database Wiki]] [[User:Vivaporius|Vivaporius]]: <small>"[[User talk:Vivaporius|I don't need a slogan]]"</small> 20:30, August 21, 2013 (UTC)
:: it doesn't need to and on top of it, all of the stuff within it can only be done through the commissioner who is appointed by the Ministry of Defense not Congress. Besides Costello's Reform is being put through. [[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]] ([[User talk:Kunarian|talk]]) 13:04, August 22, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{Pro}} 8 votes <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 22:47, August 21, 2013 (UTC)
#{{pro}} 4 votes ---''It's all here, [[User:Therider|black]] and [[User talk:Therider|white]], clear as [[User blog:Therider|crystal]]. 21:39, August 23, 2012 (UTC)
+
*{{Pro}} 4 votes. Okay, the list looks to be up to date now. [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 03:45, August 22, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{pro}} 4 votes. [[User:Bart K|Bart K]] ([[User talk:Bart K|talk]]) 14:25, August 22, 2013 (UTC)
   
 
====Contra====
 
====Contra====
#{{contra}} 6 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 20:57, August 21, 2012 (UTC) (LMP, PNO, RMP, RTP)
+
*<s>{{Contra}} 8 votes - missing a bunch of Sylvanian hamlets. Maybe I'll add them later if someone else doesn't. :P <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 19:36, August 21, 2013 (UTC)</s> Added them.
#{{contra}} 8 Votes - this is a matter for the police commissioner also, the main problem with this is that you claim there are far too many subdivisions yet create a system which does not minimize them. I would also prefer if my position wasn't undermined through this act and that things were left to the ministries like they are supposed to be. [[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]] ([[User talk:Kunarian|talk]]) 03:17, August 22, 2012 (UTC)
 
::I never felt that there were to many divisions, just that they weren't organized well. Also, you had nearly a week to get back to me with your opinion like you said you would. I also didn't realize that the Federal Police fell under the juridistiction of the Minister Defense, however, I am not undermining you by suggesting this, you had no such plan to reform the force in the first place. If you want to work together in the future, I would be happy to collaborate with you. — [[File:Beer.png|22px|link=Christopher_Costello]] [[Christopher_Costello|<font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello</font>]] <sup>([[User:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi</font>]] • [[User_talk:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Chat</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>What's up</font>]])</sup> 03:25, August 22, 2012 (UTC)
 
:::I agree that the amount of ranks is unnecessary, but otherwise I like the reform. And perhaps we can just consider this a referendum on support for the reform from Congress. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 13:42, August 22, 2012 (UTC)
 
::::Mmmm, that we shall do, besides, it would seem that active reform and support are both present. [[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]] ([[User talk:Kunarian|talk]]) 14:11, August 22, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
 
====Abstain====
 
====Abstain====
#<s>{{abstain}} I don't really understand why this is needed, and it should be in First Chamber first. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 18:11, August 21, 2012 (UTC)</s>
+
*<s>{{Abstention}} 4 votes. There are a number of issues, as I've outlined in the First Chamber, below, etc. If these are fixed, I'll vote pro. [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 20:17, August 21, 2013 (UTC)</s>
  +
*...
   
#
+
===Comments===
#:I already had this in the First Chamber for a while but for some reason I got very little feedback, and I can see many reasons why these changes are necessary. As it is now, the force is organized in a sloppy and unrealistic manner. This reform will really give the police force the organization it deserves. [[File:Beer.png|22px|link=Christopher_Costello]] [[Christopher_Costello|<font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello</font>]] <sup>([[User:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi</font>]] • [[User_talk:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Chat</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>What's up</font>]])</sup> 20:41, August 21, 2012 (UTC)
+
This list isn't up to date. And isn't Windthorn the old name for Nordhorn? [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 19:57, August 21, 2013 (UTC)
#::Fair enough. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 02:17, August 22, 2012 (UTC)
 
#<s>{{abstain}} Agree with TM and this would require a change in law; the text you wrote, isn't approvable of being used in the law. -- [[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 18:21, August 21, 2012 (UTC)</s>
 
   
#
+
Yes. It's been fixed. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 22:47, August 21, 2013 (UTC)
#:I don't think that would be necessary. As it is, the Federal Police law is very vague and doesn't have any legal documentation on the way the force is organized and/or structured. Clearly, this change can be made within the force and doesn't necessarily require any added legal documentation. — [[File:Beer.png|22px|link=Christopher_Costello]] [[Christopher_Costello|<font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello</font>]] <sup>([[User:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi</font>]] • [[User_talk:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Chat</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>What's up</font>]])</sup> 20:41, August 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
#::You're right. I forgot the Local Police Law was repealed. Still, I don't believe it needs to be voted here. The Federal Police Commissioner has full right to do these changes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 20:49, August 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
#:::Well yes, but our commissioner was Granero and he appears to be on an indefinite leave. — [[File:Beer.png|22px|link=Christopher_Costello]] [[Christopher_Costello|<font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello</font>]] <sup>([[User:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi</font>]] • [[User_talk:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Chat</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>What's up</font>]])</sup> 20:52, August 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
#::::Then the Minister of Denfence should appoint a new commissioner. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 20:54, August 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
#:::::I don't follow. Even the Minister of Defense would have had to pass such a reform through congress if he was the one to propose it. I feel that the Minister of Defense has just as much of a right to propose a reform as I have, only I thought this up, and I would like to see these changes put into place. — [[File:Beer.png|22px|link=Christopher_Costello]] [[Christopher_Costello|<font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello</font>]] <sup>([[User:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi</font>]] • [[User_talk:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Chat</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>What's up</font>]])</sup> 03:30, August 22, 2012 (UTC)
 
#::::::By law only the Minister of Defense can appoint the Commissioner, not Congress, and therefore by law only the Commissioner can proceed to fulfil said reforms. Law is law, and these changes shall be put in place sooner rather than later. After all Congress is awfully slow atm. [[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]] ([[User talk:Kunarian|talk]]) 03:35, August 22, 2012 (UTC)
 
#:::::::Its good to have your support then. Now that its been proposed, should we at least wait until it is passed by congress? When would you like to see these changes implemented? — [[File:Beer.png|22px|link=Christopher_Costello]] [[Christopher_Costello|<font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello</font>]] <sup>([[User:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi</font>]] • [[User_talk:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Chat</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>What's up</font>]])</sup> 15:58, August 22, 2012 (UTC)
 
#:::::::Well simpler things like rank have already been started to be put in, and along with that a new factor of pay has too. Could you implement the precincts, as in get their pages written, the idea seems to be well developed there in your head. I think things shouldn't be delayed while we have momentum. By the way it's Dimitri that's officially working with Costello to bring in the reforms. Hoffmanns off writing tax stuffs. [[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]] ([[User talk:Kunarian|talk]]) 16:29, August 22, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
== 022. Census Act ==
+
Okay :P --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 07:13, August 22, 2013 (UTC)
   
#The census is defined as a yearly survey of every household in the Kingdom of Lovia.
+
We need to encourage people to vote here! Multiple major users, including Semyon, Horton and Marcus, haven't voted here yet! With their support, we could easily pass this (it's at 42 votes pro now, right?). [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 08:59, September 12, 2013 (UTC)
##Censuses are carried out by a Demographic Center in each state, under the supervision of the Governor.
+
:I'll inform MartijnM. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 09:06, September 12, 2013 (UTC)
###Congress must send federal inspectors to each Demographic Center to ensure that data collection is being done correctly and to a high standard, and maintaining high statistical reliability.
+
:He hasn't voted yet. :P [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 08:30, September 21, 2013 (UTC)
###If there is concern about the census, Congress may choose by a simple majority to order any of all of the Centers to repeat the census.
 
###In extreme cases, Congress may nominate another individual to take over the supervisory role of the Governor.
 
##The data collected must include the following:
 
###Total population by district, neighborhood, hamlet, village, town and city.
 
###Population by ethnic background.
 
###Population by mother language.
 
###Population by religion.
 
##Individual Centers may also choose to collect some or all of the following data:
 
###Population by size of household.
 
###Population by age.
 
###Population by marital status.
 
###Population by country of birth.
 
###Data concerning the possessions of the population, e.g. car or house ownership.
 
###Population by sector of employment.
 
###Percentage of population unemployed or in education.
 
###Population by status of dwelling e.g. rent, full ownership, ownership with mortgage etc.
 
##The census should be carried out in the June of every year.
 
###In the case that the census is delayed in any state for more than a month without prior notice being given by the Governor or Congress, any citizen may take over the supervisory role of the Governor, or request Congress to nominate an individual for this role.
 
###Censuses may also be carried out at other times at the request of Congress, or if a Governor wishes to gather more up-to-date information on their individual state.
 
   
Anyone there? :P --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 12:33, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
+
== 021. Amendment to judicial elections ==
   
===Voting===
+
#The term of each Supreme Court Judge lasts for <del>six months</del> '''one year''', or shorter, if they resign due to personal reasons or a conflict of interests, or if the Judges declare their inability to judge the case.
====Pro====
 
*{{pro}} (6 votes) --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 16:09, September 10, 2012 (UTC)
 
*{{pro}} 17 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 12:52, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
*{{pro}} 11 votes. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 14:30, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
*{{pro}} 8 votes [[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]] ([[User talk:Kunarian|talk]]) 15:09, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
====Contra====
+
Also I propose that if this law is passed, then that indicates the current Judges can stay in their posts, since no-one seems particularly interested in replacing them. If you have a major objection, mention it/vote contra. :) --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 18:44, September 5, 2013 (UTC)
====Abstain====
 
*{{abstain}} 11 Votes - I just don't like how things like religion and mother language are required but age is not. I'm afraid I can't vote for this right now. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 22:21, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
*{{abstain}} 5 votes - Yes, age does seem like an odd thing not to require for statistical reasons. Its like the only goal of the census is to track the populous by heritage and that kind of thing. — [[File:Beer.png|22px|link=Christopher_Costello]] [[Christopher_Costello|<font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello</font>]] <sup>([[User:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi</font>]] • [[User_talk:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Chat</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>What's up</font>]])</sup> 00:43, September 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
*:It's purely a reason of ease. Making a realistic age table is a job that requires studying and a lot of effort. Effort most governors are probably not going to do anyway. We don't want shitty statistics because it's mandatory to have them. It's better to not have in that case. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 03:19, September 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
*::Then why are mother language, ethnicity, and religion required? <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 11:08, September 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
*:::No-one has shown any interest in collecting any of the optional data, though. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 12:00, September 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
*::::Again, then why collect mother language, ethnicity, and religion? From a realistic stance, I don't find those to be more important than say, age, or gender. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 22:02, September 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
*:::::I think it's very much a personal matter on what you think is most important however I would say that age is something that we should definitely include as mandatory, as it ties in so much with education, employment, pensions and so many other things that are hugely important to both the culture and governance of Lovia, but I believe we need this passed so I support it in this form but for ease of it being passed as well as ease for the future I suggest we include age. [[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]] ([[User talk:Kunarian|talk]]) 22:23, September 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
*::::::I'm not offended that race and religion are required, I just think that age is a pretty major factor and that the government should put some effort into tracking it on a national scale. I feel the same way about a few of the other fields too, but I don't necessarily feel much need to push for that. — [[File:Beer.png|22px|link=Christopher_Costello]] [[Christopher_Costello|<font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello</font>]] <sup>([[User:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi</font>]] • [[User_talk:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Chat</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>What's up</font>]])</sup> 01:38, September 14, 2012 (UTC)
 
*:::::::Keep in mind: if we create age diagrams, we will hardly be able to do population boost in the future. Also: take [[Amish Kinley]]: it's mainly younger people living there. I'm concerned that these particularities will not be represented in age figures if we create them too hastily. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 11:26, September 14, 2012 (UTC)
 
*::::::::Anyway, we first need historical populations before we can go on with age figures. So: if somebody has a few months spare time: I'd say go ahead :P --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 11:27, September 14, 2012 (UTC)
 
*:::::::::Historical populations (histpops? :P) are going to be a real faff to do. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 11:30, September 14, 2012 (UTC)
 
*::::::::::Indeed, from 1870 to 2010 we grew about 200,000 inhabitants, which means originally it went fast (lots of immigrations), then slow, followed by decrease (famines of the 50's), in Oceana closures of the mines (60's-70's) and migration to other nations such as Mäöres (80's) and then a sudden boom by immigration and natural birth up until now. Good luck :P --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 11:34, September 14, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
==023. Second Amendment - Speech Reform==
+
===Pro===
I can't believe that this wasn't present earlier, but after shifting through our [[Constitution]], I noticed an unethical and rather embarrassing lack of "the right to freedom of speech". The small but necessary change that I am proposing is as follows:
+
* {{pro}} 5 votes --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 18:44, September 5, 2013 (UTC) 5 votes
  +
* {{pro}} 14 --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 18:45, September 5, 2013 (UTC) <del>huge objection though :P</del>
  +
* {{pro}} 4 votes [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] ([[User talk:Wabba The I|talk]]) 18:47, September 5, 2013 (UTC) 4 votes
  +
* {{Pro}} 4 votes. [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 20:18, September 5, 2013 (UTC)
  +
* {{Pro}} 5 Votes (Hey this was my law change :P) [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 01:07, September 6, 2013 (UTC)
  +
* {{Pro}} 8 votes <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 01:41, September 6, 2013 (UTC)
  +
* {{Pro}} 8 votes [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 13:03, September 6, 2013 (UTC)
  +
* {{Pro}} 1 vote [[User:Frijoles333|Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara]] ([[User talk:Frijoles333|talk]]) 16:08, September 6, 2013 (UTC)
  +
* {{Pro}} 4 votes [[File:Flag of the Hurian Federation.png|30px|border|link=http://hurian-database.wikia.com/wiki/Hurian_Database_Wiki|The Hurian Database Wiki]] [[User:Vivaporius|Vivaporius]]: <small>"[[User talk:Vivaporius|I don't need a slogan]]"</small> 03:27, September 7, 2013 (UTC)
  +
* {{Pro}} 7 votes [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP2wt.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 15:18, September 7, 2013 (UTC)
  +
* {{pro}} 4 votes [[User:Bart K|Bart K]] ([[User talk:Bart K|talk]]) 14:24, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{pro}} 5 votes <span style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:90%;">— [[Christopher_Costello|<font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello</font>]] <sup>([[User:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi</font>]] • [[User_talk:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Chat</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>What's up</font>]])</sup></span> 20:18, September 11, 2013 (UTC)
   
:'''Article 2''', Section 1.1 - Of freedom of thought, '''''speech,''''' meaning and religion.
+
===Contra===
  +
===Abstain===
  +
===Comments===
  +
This needs 66 votes, because its the Constitution. So 13 more needed. Someone wake up your fellow inactives :P [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 15:06, September 7, 2013 (UTC)
   
If you don't approve of this reform, that would suggest that you are also opposed to freedom of speech, one of the most basic civil liberties.
+
Damn it! If only I had more votes in the chamber :P [[User:Frijoles333|Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara]] ([[User talk:Frijoles333|talk]]) 15:16, September 7, 2013 (UTC)
— [[File:Beer.png|22px|link=Christopher_Costello]] [[Christopher_Costello|<font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello</font>]] <sup>([[User:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi</font>]] • [[User_talk:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Chat</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>What's up</font>]])</sup> 21:11, September 14, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
===Voting===
+
Correction: it needs 67 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 15:24, September 7, 2013 (UTC)
{{Voting}}
 
   
====Pro====
+
{{Accepted}} I wonder if this even needs to be called an amendment? We can just call it a "minor fix" è. x) <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 00:19, September 12, 2013 (UTC)
*5 votes [[File:Beer.png|22px|link=Christopher_Costello]] [[Christopher_Costello|<font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello</font>]] <sup>([[User:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi</font>]][[User_talk:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Chat</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>What's up</font>]])</sup> 21:11, September 14, 2012 (UTC)
+
:No, it's an amendment :P --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 08:38, September 12, 2013 (UTC)
*11 votes - However, I think this shouldn't be voted on. Just add it. Little errors in the Constitution can be fixed without a vote. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 15:12, September 15, 2012 (UTC)
+
::I propose the compromise of 'minor amendment.' :P --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 09:33, September 12, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::: :P I guess I can agree with that :P --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 09:38, September 12, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::::Or "minor, fixing amendment". That way, TM will have his entire name "minor fix" in it as well :P --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 09:39, September 12, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::::Sounds too silly. I think we'll have to find a compromise between your compromise and my compromise. :o --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 12:24, September 12, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::::::Minor fix amendment? :o --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 12:28, September 12, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::::::Sounds ok to me. :P --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 12:39, September 12, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::::::: :P --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 12:43, September 12, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::::::::::::::::::::::::::Minor amendment is fine. :P <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 21:57, September 12, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::::::::::::Okay :o We dancing with colons now? :P --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 06:15, September 13, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::::::::::::::Time's gotten addicted to colons very recently :P [[User:4kant,6|4kant,6]]<sup>[[User talk:4kant,6|FRÅGOR???]]</sup> 13:34, September 13, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::::::::::::::He got the virus :P --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]][[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|<sup>sjrief-mich</sup>]] 16:14, September 13, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
== 022. Education reform ==
  +
Alright, nothing's happened to it for a week now, so let's propose this thing. The illegalities section - if written - may be added later.
  +
  +
50+%
  +
  +
* '''Article 6 - Primary Education Act'''
  +
*# Primary education is the educating of children in a school or privately, by qualified teachers, in order to provide them with the apt knowledge and skills to go to secondary education.
  +
*# Primary education is provided in primary or elementary schools, unless the child is taught privately.
  +
*## Primary schools can be operated privately, that is by an individual or an organization, or publicly, that is by a neighborhood, hamlet, town, city, state or by the federal state.
  +
*## Primary schools have to appoint teachers that are qualified to teach the subjects they are asked to teach.
  +
*### All primary school teachers must have obtained a '''single Lovian Certificate of Education Level 2 or above or a Supplementary Lovian Certificate of Education Level 2 or above'''.
  +
*## Primary schools can turn down pupils only in special cases, these being the inability to provide education to a pupil with a particular problem, '''the inability to properly provide education for a pupil due to a lack of resources''' or if a pupil has proven to be unable to behave according to '''previous schools<nowiki>'</nowiki>''' regulations. In no other cases, pupils shall be denied access '''without consultation with the Ministry of Education'''.
  +
*# Primary schools provide general and basic education to a child. '''All subjects taught must be Lovian Certificates of Education and may not be Supplementary Lovian Certificate of Education.'''
  +
*## These subjects should be taught at least three hours per week, during the six years of primary education:
  +
*##* '''English (level 1)'''
  +
*##* '''Mathematics (level 1)'''
  +
*##* '''Arts and Crafts (level 1)'''
  +
*## These subjects should be taught at least two hours per week, during the six years of primary education:
  +
*##* '''Physical Education (level 1)'''
  +
*##* '''Social Education (level 1)'''
  +
*##* '''The school must also choose a level 1 language subject to provide other than English that must be taught at least two hours a week, from a list which the State Government will provide.'''
  +
*## These subjects should be taught at least one hour per week, during the six years of primary education:
  +
*##* '''History (level 1)'''
  +
*##* '''Geography (level 1)'''
  +
*##* '''Science (level 1)'''
  +
*##* '''Computing (level 1)'''
  +
*## '''Primary schools may also provide more languages than the two mandatory subjects to pupils. The specific additional languages a pupil is taught however will be selected by the pupil themselves from the list of additional languages the school provides beyond the two mandatory language subjects.'''
  +
*## Primary schools are free to choose to provide more classes of any of these subjects, or to provide other '''level 1''' subjects considered valuable, in order to provide a minimum of twenty-two hours of class, every week of the schoolyear. '''Primary schools may provide more classes beyond the twenty-two hour minimum but none beyond the maximum of thirty hours of class, every week of the schoolyear.'''
  +
*## There shall be no doctrinal classes in primary schools.
  +
*### In a course called 'Religions of the world', children may be taught about religions. If the school wishes to teach this subject, all major religions should be brought to attention, as well as a non-religious attitude.
  +
*### Primary schools and their teachers may not try to convince children of a certain religious '''or political''' point of view, nor can they make any pupil exercise a religious act''', unless the pupil and/or the parents agree with taking doctrinal classes.'''
  +
*# These rules apply for the arrangement of the timetable:
  +
*## A break of at least 10 minutes is compulsory between every two hours; more often is allowed.
  +
*## There shall be no classes on Sunday.
  +
*## There shall be no classes between 7 PM and 7 AM.
  +
*## There must be a lunch break every day, of at least an hour, between noon and 2 PM.
  +
*# Private education, by a qualified teacher, can be provided. In this case, the same rules apply.
  +
*# Every child residing in Lovia has to receive six years of primary education, beginning in the schoolyear during which the child will reach the age of 6 years.
  +
*## Only if a qualified psychologist and the pupil's teacher find it appropriate for the pupil to skip a schoolyear and continue education with older pupils, and if the parents agree on this, the pupil may skip a schoolyear.
  +
*## Every pupil has to receive primary education until the schoolyear during which the pupil will reach the age of 12, except in the case mentioned above.
  +
*# In case a primary school does not provide the kind of education described in this article, the Minister of Education or the [[Royal Educational Aims Council]] can decide to shut down the school until the service provided does qualify. '''In the meantime,''' the Ministry of Education must provide education to the pupils of that school, by allowing them instant pro-tempore access to another school.
  +
*## The Royal Educational Aims Council is a council under the Ministry of Education, consisting of three educational specialists who decide on the secondary education curriculum, and who can close a school (of any level) if it does not qualify with the requirements.
  +
*### The following three persons are members of the council: the Minister of Education, the Prime Minister, and the Minister of Labour as the pupils' and students' welfare watchdog.
  +
*### The Rector of Blackburn University is added to the council as its fourth member only when the council is looking into a matter directly concerned with the higher educational system.
  +
*# '''States are allowed to create legislation concerning special needs and religious education, and education in another language (special education).'''
  +
*## '''The same rules apply to special education as to regular institutions.'''
  +
*## '''Regular education must always remain available to pupils.'''
  +
*### '''All settlements with more than 5,000 inhabitants must have at least one regular primary school.'''
  +
*### '''A state must always have at least one regular primary school.'''
  +
*# '''All primary schools within Lovia are funded by a School Voucher system.'''
  +
*## '''A School Voucher system operates via a system of grants from the Ministry of Education to a parent for each child they have at the age of primary education to pay for their child's tuition within Lovia.'''
  +
*### '''Parents are granted an amount towards each child's education, this grant is not given to the parents instead the Ministry of Education must create documents that shall be used to register where their child is currently receiving tuition so that the grant may be given directly to their child's school.'''
  +
*#### '''The current grant per child is L$11,000.'''
  +
*#### '''These documents must be simple, easy to understand and must not be misleading, there must also be a way to trace who filled in the documents.'''
  +
*### '''To obtain the grant, at least one parent must be a Lovian citizen.'''
  +
*### '''Parents wealthy enough to make tuition provisions for their child without state assistance should do so.'''
  +
*#### '''Parents earning over L$100,000 collectively will only be entitled to half of the grant.'''
  +
*#### '''Parents earning over L$250,000 collectively will not be entitled to any of the grant.'''
  +
*### '''Primary schools may not charge a tuition that is higher than the grant.'''
  +
*# '''Primary schools must register certain details in a primary school register.'''
  +
*## '''A primary school must register:'''
  +
*##* '''Their name.'''
  +
*##* '''The address of the school.'''
  +
*##* '''The number of pupils they are currently teaching a primary education to.'''
  +
*##* '''The number of teachers they are currently employing to teach primary education.'''
  +
*##* '''The tuition fee the school is charging per child in primary education.'''
  +
*##* '''The date of registration.'''
  +
*## '''These registers are managed on a state by state basis by the relevant state government.'''
  +
*### '''Further details may be requested by the state government.'''
  +
*## '''The details must be renewed every half-year since the date of registration.'''
  +
*### '''If they are not renewed then the school shall be given a weeks grace period to fill in the details along with a notification from the state government, if it fails to renew details after the grace period then it is no longer considered able to provide education to students and must be shut down until it renews the details. In the meanwhile the Ministry of Education must provide education to the students of that school.'''
  +
*## '''Only primary schools that are registered in the primary school register may be considered primary schools by law.'''
  +
  +
* '''Article 7 - Secondary Education Act'''
  +
*# Secondary education is the educating of adolescents in a school or privately, by qualified teachers, in order to provide them with the apt knowledge and skills to lead a life in a modern society and in order to be able to '''continue studying in university or take on an apprenticeship.'''
  +
*## '''After having completed the schoolyear of their 16th birthday a child may choose to not continue ordinary school and instead pursue an apprenticeship, should they secure an apprenticeship then they may continue their education under their employer as an apprentice, if they at any point lose their apprenticeship they must at the soonest possible date rejoin a school.'''
  +
*# Secondary education is provided in high schools or secondary schools, unless the adolescent is taught privately.
  +
*## Secondary schools can be operated privately, that is by an individual or an organization, or publicly, that is by a neighborhood, hamlet, town, city, state or by the federal state.
  +
*## Secondary schools have to appoint teachers that are qualified to teach the subjects they are asked to teach.
  +
*### All secondary school teachers must have obtained a '''single Lovian Certificate of Education Level 4 or above or a Supplementary Lovian Certificate of Education Level 4 or above'''.
  +
*## Secondary schools can turn down pupils only in special cases, these being the inability to provide education to a pupil with a particular problem, '''the inability to properly provide education for a pupil due to a lack of resources''' or if a pupil has proven to be unable to behave according to '''previous schools<nowiki>'</nowiki>''' regulations. In no other cases, pupils shall be denied access '''without consultation with the Ministry of Education'''.
  +
*# '''Secondary schools provide two tiers of education, one to a child from the age of 12 until 16 and another to a child of the ages of 17 and 18 should the child choose to continue in school:'''
  +
*## '''Secondary schools provide a general education to a child up until the age of 16. All subjects taught must be Lovian Certificates of Education and may not be Supplementary Lovian Certificate of Education.'''
  +
*### '''These subjects should be taught at least four hours per week, during the first four years of secondary education:'''
  +
*###* '''Mathematics (level 2)'''
  +
*### '''These subjects should be taught at least two hours per week, during the first four years of secondary education:'''
  +
*###* '''English (level 2)'''
  +
*###* '''Literature (level 2)'''
  +
*###* '''Art (level 2)'''
  +
*###* '''Physical Education (level 2)'''
  +
*###* '''Social Education (level 2)'''
  +
*###* '''Technology (level 2)'''
  +
*###* '''Science (level 2)'''
  +
*###* '''The school must also choose a level 2 language subject to provide other than English that must be taught at least two hours a week, from a list which the State Government will provide.'''
  +
*### '''These subjects should be taught at least one hour per week, during the first four years of secondary education:'''
  +
*###* '''History (level 2)'''
  +
*###* '''Geography (level 2)'''
  +
*###* '''Computing (level 2)'''
  +
*### '''Secondary schools may also provide more languages than the two mandatory subjects to pupils between the ages of 12 and 16. The specific additional languages a pupil is taught however will be selected by the pupil themselves from the list of additional languages the school provides beyond the two mandatory language subjects.'''
  +
*### '''Secondary schools are free to choose to provide more classes of any of these subjects, or to provide other level 2 subjects considered valuable, in order to provide a minimum of thirty hours of class, every week of the schoolyear. Secondary schools may provide more classes beyond the thirty hour minimum but none beyond the maximum of forty hours of class, every week of the schoolyear.'''
  +
*## '''Secondary schools provide an advanced education to a child of the age of 17 and 18. All subjects taught must be Lovian Certificates of Education and may not be Supplementary Lovian Certificate of Education.'''
  +
*### '''These subjects should be taught at least five hours per week, during the last two years of secondary education:'''
  +
*###* '''English (level 3)'''
  +
*###* '''Mathematics (level 3)'''
  +
*###* '''The school must also choose a level 3 language subject to provide other than English that must be taught at least five hours a week, from a list which the State Government will provide.'''
  +
*### '''Secondary schools must provide a wide selection of level 3 subjects for pupils to choose from to study. Pupils may choose to study a minimum of three extra subjects to study to bring their total time within school to 30 hours of class, every week of the schoolyear. Pupils may choose to study two more subjects beyond the thirty hour minimum, bringing their total time within school to 40 hours of class, every week of the schoolyear.'''
  +
*### '''Each additional subject a pupil chooses to study must be taught for five hours each week.'''
  +
*## Doctrinal classes may be provided in secondary schools by the school itself, if wished.
  +
*### There shall be no more than one hour of doctrinal class per week.
  +
*### The content of doctrinal classes, in which the teacher teaches a particular religious or political world view, can be chosen by the school and teacher.
  +
*#### There shall be no doctrinal classes about extremist views; that is: no far-right, far-left, extremist '''religious''', violent or extreme nationalist views can be taught. If needed, the Royal Educational Aims Council and the Minister of Education can dismiss a doctrinal course.
  +
*### A student is allowed not to follow a doctrinal course provided by a secondary school, if he or she '''does not''' want to take this course. In order to skip these classes, the student has to notify the school direction and stay on school property during the courses.
  +
*### A course called 'Religions of the world', or any course similar to it, is not considered a doctrinal course.
  +
*### No tests and exams shall be taken for these courses.
  +
*# These rules apply for the arrangement of the timetable:
  +
*## A break of at least 10 minutes is compulsory between every two hours; more often is allowed.
  +
*## There shall be no classes on Sunday.
  +
*## There shall be no classes between 7 PM and 7 AM.
  +
*## There must be a lunch break every day, of at least an hour, between noon and 2 PM.
  +
*# Private education, by a qualified teacher, can be provided. In this case, the same rules apply.
  +
*# Every child residing in Lovia has to receive at least '''four''' years of secondary education, beginning in the schoolyear after which the adolescent has finished his primary education successfully. '''Additionally should a child not be employed as an apprentice, they must continue to receive education until they have completed the educational year in which they are 18.'''
  +
*## Only if a qualified psychologist and the student's teacher find it appropriate for the student to skip a schoolyear and continue education with older students, and if the parents agree on this, the student may skip a schoolyear.
  +
*# Secondary schools that do not provide the kind of education described in this article, the Minister of Education or the Royal Educational Aims Council can decide to shut down the school until the service provided do qualify. In the meanwhile the Ministry of Education must provide education to the students of that school.
  +
*# '''States are allowed to create legislation concerning special needs and religious education, and education in another language (special education).'''
  +
*## '''The same rules apply to special education as to regular institutions.'''
  +
*## '''Regular education must always remain available to pupils.'''
  +
*### '''All settlements with more than 10,000 inhabitants must have at least one regular secondary school.'''
  +
*### '''A state must always have at least one regular secondary school.'''
  +
*# '''All secondary schools within Lovia are funded by a School Voucher system.'''
  +
*## '''A School Voucher system operates via a system of grants from the Ministry of Education to a parent for each child they have at the age of secondary education to pay for their child's tuition within Lovia.'''
  +
*### '''Parents are granted an amount towards each child's education, this grant is not given to the parents instead the Ministry of Education must create documents that shall be used to register where their child is currently receiving tuition so that the grant may be given directly to their child's school.'''
  +
*#### '''The current grant per child is L$15,000.'''
  +
*#### '''These documents must be simple, easy to understand and must not be misleading, there must also be a way to trace who filled in the documents.'''
  +
*### '''To obtain the grant, at least one parent must be a Lovian citizen.'''
  +
*### '''Parents wealthy enough to make tuition provisions for their child without state assistance should do so.'''
  +
*#### '''Parents earning over L$100,000 collectively will only be entitled to half of the grant.'''
  +
*#### '''Parents earning over L$250,000 collectively will not be entitled to any of the grant.'''
  +
*### '''Secondary schools may not charge a tuition that is higher than the grant.'''
  +
*# '''Secondary schools must register certain details in a secondary school register.'''
  +
*## '''A secondary school must register:'''
  +
*##* '''Their name.'''
  +
*##* '''The address of the school.'''
  +
*##* '''The number of pupils they are currently teaching a secondary education to.'''
  +
*##* '''The number of teachers they are currently employing to teach secondary education.'''
  +
*##* '''The tuition fee the school is charging per child in secondary education.'''
  +
*##* '''The date of registration.'''
  +
*## '''These registers are managed on a state by state basis by the relevant state government.'''
  +
*### '''Further details may be requested by the state government.'''
  +
*## '''The details must be renewed every half-year since the date of registration.'''
  +
*### '''If they are not renewed then the school shall be given a weeks grace period to fill in the details along with a notification from the state government, if it fails to renew details after the grace period then it is no longer considered able to provide education to students and must be shut down until it renews the details. In the meanwhile the Ministry of Education must provide education to the students of that school.'''
  +
*## '''Only secondary schools that are registered in the secondary school register may be considered secondary schools by law.'''
  +
  +
* '''Article 12 - Educational Boards Act'''
  +
*# An educational board is a registered organisation that creates curriculum's for schools and is responsible for the testing, examination and marking of the students learning their curriculum's and then the distribution of the results. They are also granted the power to award Lovian Certificates of Education (LCE) and Supplimentary Lovian Certificates of Education (SLCE) to students.
  +
*# Educational boards may award LCE's and SLCE's to students with an assigned grade attached to the certificate.
  +
*## A Lovian Certificate of Education is a full course in a subject, ensuring that the student learning the curriculum related to the LCE understands the full knowledge of the subject over the full time of the educational level it is at.
  +
*### Grades assigned to LCE's are related to the percentage achieved in the combined tests, examinations or coursework of the subject.
  +
*#### Pass grades are as follows:
  +
*####* A*, which is awarded should a student get 95% or above in the combined tests, examinations or coursework of the subject.
  +
*####* A, which is awarded should a student get 90% or above and below 95% in the combined tests, examinations or coursework of the subject.
  +
*####* B, which is awarded should a student get 80% or above and below 90% in the combined tests, examinations or coursework of the subject.
  +
*####* C, which is awarded should a student get 70% or above and below 80% in the combined tests, examinations or coursework of the subject.
  +
*####* D, which is awarded should a student get 60% or above and below 70% in the combined tests, examinations or coursework of the subject.
  +
*####* E, which is awarded should a student get 50% or above and below 60% in the combined tests, examinations or coursework of the subject.
  +
*#### Fail grades are as follows:
  +
*####* F, which is awarded should a student get 40% or above and below 50% in the combined tests, examinations or coursework of the subject.
  +
*####* U, which is awarded should a student get below 40% in the combined tests, examinations or coursework of the subject.
  +
*#### When a student fails they receive a letter with their fail grade and their percentage achieved in various exams and tests in order to help them understand and improve for the future rather than an LCE.
  +
*## A Supplimentary Lovian Certificate of Education is a short course in a subject, ensuring that the student learning the curriculum related to the SLCE understands the basic and general knowledge of the subject but does so over a quarter of the time of the full course.
  +
*### Grades assigned to SLCE's are related to the percentage achieved.
  +
*#### Pass grades are as follows:
  +
*####* A*, which is awarded should a student get 97.5% or above in the combined tests, examinations or coursework of the subject.
  +
*####* A, which is awarded should a student get 95% or above and below 97.5% in the combined tests, examinations or coursework of the subject.
  +
*####* B, which is awarded should a student get 90% or above and below 95% in the combined tests, examinations or coursework of the subject.
  +
*####* C, which is awarded should a student get 85% or above and below 90% in the combined tests, examinations or coursework of the subject.
  +
*####* D, which is awarded should a student get 80% or above and below 85% in the combined tests, examinations or coursework of the subject.
  +
*####* E, which is awarded should a student get 75% or above and below 80% in the combined tests, examinations or coursework of the subject.
  +
*#### Fail grades are as follows:
  +
*####* F, which is awarded should a student get 70% or above and below 85% in the combined tests, examinations or coursework of the subject.
  +
*####* U, which is awarded should a student get below 70% in the combined tests, examinations or coursework of the subject.
  +
*#### When a student fails they receive a letter with their fail grade and their percentage achieved in various exams and tests in order to help them understand and improve for the future rather than an SLCE.
  +
*# Subjects will be provided at various levels by Educational Boards. Subjects can either be defined by law or by certain governmental institutions.
  +
*## Level 1 subjects are aimed at giving a wide and basic education, in cases where the subject is applicable to needing to teach using resources that might concern the state, nation and world, examples and resources concerning all three of these should be used. These are aimed to be taught in primary school by a person with at least a level 2 qualification to children aged 6-12, over the course of 6 years.
  +
*## Level 2 subjects are aimed at giving a general and advanced education, in cases where the subject is applicable to needing to teach using resources that might concern the state, nation and world, examples and resources concerning only two or all three should be used. These are aimed to be taught in secondary school by a person with at least a level 4 qualification to adolescents aged 12-16, over the course of 4 years.
  +
*## Level 3 subjects are aimed at giving a focused and advanced education, in cases where the subject is applicable to needing to teach using resources that might concern the state, nation and world, examples and resources concerning only one, two or all three may be used. These are aimed to be taught in secondary school by a person with at least a level 4 qualification to adolescents aged 16-18, over the course of 2 years.
  +
*## Level 4 subjects are aimed at giving a highly focused and advanced education, the aim of this education should be to prepare the student for a career in the subject they are taking. These are aimed to be taught in university by a person with at least a level 5 qualification to adults aged 18-21, over the course of 3 years.
  +
*## Level 5 subjects are aimed at building on a persons focused and advanced education, the aim of this education should be to advance the students knowledge further in the subject they are taking. These are aimed to be taught in university by a person with at least a level 6 qualification to adults aged 21 and over.
  +
*## Level 6 subjects are aimed at further building on a persons focused and advanced education, the aim of this education should be to advance the students knowledge further in the subject they are taking. These are aimed to be taught in university by a person with at least a level 7 qualification to adults aged 21 and over.
  +
*## Level 7 subjects are aimed at building on a persons focused and advanced education at an experimental level, the aim of this education should be to advance the students knowledge further in the subject they are taking. These are aimed to be taught in university by a person with at least a level 7 qualification to adults aged 21 and over.
  +
*## Subjects that educational boards may provide at specific levels are any of those defined in law and those recognised by state governments on a state by state basis with the advice of the Ministry of Education.
  +
*## Additionally the Ministry of Education may recognise subjects nationally with advice from Congress.
  +
*# Educational boards must provide tests, examinations or coursework or a combination of those for students to complete as part of a subject to act as proof that they understand the full knowledge of the subject.
  +
*# Educational boards may not refuse to provide a tutor, school or university access to a subject unless it does not have the proper resources to administrate the subject.
  +
*# Educational boards may charge no more than a certain amount of Lovian Dollars per student per subject and must charge the same rate for all subjects it provides on the same level.
  +
*## Educational boards may charge up to L$50 for level 1 subjects.
  +
*## Educational boards may charge up to L$60 for level 2 subjects.
  +
*## Educational boards may charge up to L$125 for level 3 subjects.
  +
*## Educational boards may charge up to L$750 for level 4-7 subjects.
  +
*# Educational boards must register certain details in an educational board register.
  +
*## An educational board must register:
  +
*##* Their name.
  +
*##* The address of the educational board.
  +
*##* The number of courses they are currently offering.
  +
*##* The number of schools using the subjects they are offering.
  +
*##* The fee the educational board is charging per student per subject at each level.
  +
*##* The date of registration.
  +
*## These registers are managed on a state by state basis by the relevant state government.
  +
*### Further details may be requested by the state government.
  +
*## The details must be renewed every half-year since the date of registration.
  +
*### If they are not renewed then the educational board shall be given a weeks grace period to fill in the details along with a notification from the state government, if it fails to renew details after the grace period then it is no longer considered able to provide courses and correct administration of said courses it may be shut down until it renews the details. In the meanwhile the Ministry of Education must provide support to the schools using courses from the educational board that has been shut down.
  +
*## Only Educational boards that are registered in the educational board register may be considered educational boards by law.
  +
  +
===Pro===
  +
* {{pro}} 14 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]] 03:16, September 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{pro}} 7 votes [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP2wt.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 14:12, September 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{pro}} 4 votes [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] ([[User talk:Wabba The I|talk]]) 14:15, September 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
**But I have some questions and facts. I think three hours arts and crafts in the primary education is too much. Two is enough. [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] ([[User talk:Wabba The I|talk]]) 14:15, September 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
***It includes music as well. I'd say it's very important. Research has shown that arts and crafts is very good for brain development at an early age :) --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]] 14:20, September 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 1 vote [[User:Frijoles333|Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara]] ([[User talk:Frijoles333|talk]]) 15:49, September 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 4 votes. Overall, this seems okay. [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 02:04, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 4 votes - tl;dr Seems pretty good to me. [[File:Flag of the Hurian Federation.png|30px|border|link=http://hurian-database.wikia.com/wiki/Hurian_Database_Wiki|The Hurian Database Wiki]] [[User:Vivaporius|Vivaporius]]: <small>"[[User talk:Vivaporius|I don't need a slogan]]"</small> 02:33, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} 5 votes <span style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:90%;">— [[Christopher_Costello|<font color=#2E6FFD>Christopher Costello</font>]] <sup>([[User:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Pikapi</font>]] • [[User_talk:Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>Chat</font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pikapi|<font color=#2E6FFD>What's up</font>]])</sup></span> 21:19, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{pro}} 4 votes [[User:Bart K|Bart K]] ([[User talk:Bart K|talk]]) 12:03, September 26, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Pro}} Passed. 9 votes. '''[[User:Happy65|<font color="Teal"> Happy65 </font>]]''' <sup> '''[[User talk:Happy65|<font color="Aqua"> Talk</font>]] [[Conservative Nationalist Party|CNP]] '''</sup>''' [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px]]''' 16:44, September 26, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
===Contra===
  +
*{{contra}} 8 votes - too much parental choice, vouchers (ok in general but i've come out against the too high amount of parental choice it gives), religious education, boards need more info on what they do, etc. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 21:20, September 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::there's plenty of information on what boards do, their role isn't complex. They create the course for a subject, supply that to schools and then provide the testing for the subject, verify the results of the tests and supply that to students, simple as. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP2wt.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 07:15, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::Oh, that makes a lot more sense now. Perhaps too much legalese? Also, are there Ministry of Education-ran boards? <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 20:46, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::::Probably. There's no restriction against it, you can just set one up and go ahead that way. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP2wt.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 21:39, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
===Abstain===
  +
*<strike>{{Abstain}} - Remove the unfinished apprenticeships act and we'll get that passed later - [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP2wt.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 08:19, September 16, 2013 (UTC) </strike>
  +
::<strike>Additionally I need to finish off the educational boards act, I can do that early today. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP2wt.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 08:47, September 16, 2013 (UTC)</strike>
  +
  +
:::Wanna vote pro now? :o --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]] 13:21, September 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::::Yes. :) [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP2wt.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 14:11, September 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::::Good :P --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]] 14:12, September 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{Abstain}} - I would rather the voucher system be removed and replaced through a mix of tax and government funding. No person should have to pay upfront for their education, unless it is for private schooling. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 13:08, September 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::Horton, you do not seem to understand the voucher system. It is basically exactly what you say. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP2wt.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 14:10, September 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::Indeed :) --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]] 14:12, September 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
*{{abstain}} (5 votes) In general I appreciate the attempt to improve the detail of the law, but I have some reservations which prevent me voting pro. I'm rather uneasy about the voucher system, but I can live with it. However, I don't agree with parents having to pay for their children's education if their incomes are over a certain amount. $50000 dollars is practically nothing - it's about £14000 per parent which is a very low income in Britain, let alone Lovia, and if the parents have multiple children they won't be able to afford to eat. It's also immoral to charge immigrants for schooling. These people are likely to be poorer than average and if they pay taxes then they deserve to receive government money. The Educational Boards Act also concerns me. It's too close to the British system (i.e. screwed up, particularly the two fail grades) for my liking, and it's unnecessary for the government to specify grade boundaries (they're also pretty silly: 97.5% for the top grade?) in the law (!), and such inflexibility is a real pain for exam boards that have to produce a paper of identical difficulty year after year. A better system, if anything, would be to specify that 5% of students receive the top grade, 10% the next, etc. I personally think that one educational board would be enough for such a small country as Lovia, or the schools could set their own exams and have them moderated by an external body to ensure fairness (I believe something similar to the latter occurs in Germany). There are also some spelling and grammatical errors which I'll look at this evening, particularly 'supplimentary' - I actually have an issue with the word as it implies extension to the core material, which is the opposite of the intended meaning. Finally, I object to the long class hours for Level 3 students. At this stage in their education independent education should be heavily emphasised, and if students aren't able to cope with that they should have chosen the apprenticeship option. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 11:53, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::Semyon, you are wrong on the income but I understand your concerns there, L$50,000 is actually roughly equal to £28,000 so asking parents who would be earning (in pounds here) £56,000 collectively, which I'm sure you know, even collectively that's a lot of money each and that's only to half the grant, not to take it away.<br />Also it's not immoral to charge immigrants who want to come to Lovia for schooling, it's so easy to get Lovian citizenship that the argument you state is redundant.<br />On your thoughts on exam grades, what you suggest is a false economy, as under your proposal an A grade from one year is worth a different amount to another year, and students who do well may be pushed down grades under your system just because other students did well too, there is no continuity or stability in the system you suggest. Additionally defining the grade boundaries is not nonsensical, we're recognising the validity of the gradings as a government and the grade boundaries are not silly especially as the one you reference is for a supplementary course which requires that it be ensured that someone has actually learned and understood what they've learned more than a standard course as it is shorter and in slightly less detail because of that.<br />Concerning flexibility, there is plenty of fexibility, educational boards decide everything on how things are tested however we simply give a standard by which the worth of a LCE may be judged, an A (90%) means that a student has an almost perfect comprehension of the subject whereas a C (70%) shows a comprehension of a majority of the subject. This stability and continuity and lack of random flux is useful for both employers and universities.<br />And I do not think we should have one board, that would limit user creativity and cause problems by centralising power far to much to a single individual who may simply leave the whole thing inactive and undone, which has happened under so many centralised systems before.<br />And supplement in this means to supplement a deficiency as the LSCE is supposed to be used to supply urgent areas of need rather than to be used as a basic education in a course.<br />And I don't quite understand what you mean on the long hours or apprenticeships, if you decided to stay in an academic education you should be prepared to put the effort in to learn and I don't know quite what you mean about apprenticeships, they aren't there for people who cannot handle academic education, they are there to supply a practical way into the workforce while also receiving the basic education. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP2wt.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 13:20, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::Kunarian, I think you might not have read what I wrote very carefully. It strikes me that much of what you've written is intended to advance your own proposal, instead of and sometimes at the expense of pursuing the best legal solution. None of your defence alleviates my concerns, and some of the points you've misunderstood outright, though maybe something I wrote was unclear too. I didn't post in order to attack the law, but to point out a number of flaws that need to be corrected before Congress passes the bill. Of course, if you think a point-by-point rebuttal is still necessary, then I can provide one. :) --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 14:07, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::::I don't think it is needed, I think this may simply be a misunderstanding. Additionally I always believe that I must argue my side first so that we may root out things that are not real issues and then anything that is left we can deal with. If my responses did not alleviate your concerns, maybe we should move this discussion as not to block up the voting area and try again, maybe more clearly outlining where you find flaws and then we can see whether I can alleviate them and then if not then how can we address those (whether or not this actually passes). I think to be honest we need to see if people feel that this is worth passing, I certainly feel it is, then if it passes and people still feel there are flaws to address, then we can address them. If it fails to pass then we shall reform it there and attempt to pass it once more. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP2wt.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 14:16, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
I still don't think your grant idea is good enough. Education in Lovia should be tax funded, not by grants to parents. And with regards to higher-income families, they should not be forced to pay up front unless it is for private education. That they shouldn't pay more taxes isn't wrong, but both richer and less-rich people should have the same access to "free" public education without barriers. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 14:23, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:That is what the grant in this case is, it is basically a tax funded ticket to education for the child. If you really feel higher earners should be given the grant then I am fine with that but pass this bill now and we can address concerns in further amendments that I will pro actively work for, and will work with you and semyon to do so. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP2wt.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 14:29, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::Well there shouldn't be a ticket then. People should be able to enrol in schools without one. Taxes should be used to directly fun the education system, not to go through. I also agree with Semyon on immigrant education, This is an inalienable right and they should have open access without having to worry about paying a lump sum. That doesn't mean that they'd study free, as all families in Lovia should be contributing via taxres to this. And one more thing, if we're working to pass a comprehensive education act, should we not do the same for healthcare and havve a publica tax-funded system? These two would go well hand-in-hand.[[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 14:36, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::You do not seem to understand the benefits of having a flexible funding system like this rather than a simple but flawed purely centralised government lump sum system. We can deal with the issue of immigrant education but that must be dealt with after a debate and consideration of options I feel. On healthcare we need to look at the issue but we've ended up devolving that power largely down to the states. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP2wt.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 14:39, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::::The government won't give a lump sum. The system you're proposing is largely OK, but it does not need vouchers, coupons and added steps in the bureaucracy. Just a simple and direct form like you pay you taxes and x% goes toward education, which the ministry then hands down to states and schools. And also, if health has been devolved, why can't education be as well? [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 15:01, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::::There is less bureaucracy in this system than any practical system you propose of direct government funding. And funding by a percentage of tax raised is a terrible idea! Education can be devolved, if we repeal the current legislation, otherwise it cannot. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP2wt.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 15:14, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::::::Nah, the system proposed has its flaws and will create more bureaucracy issues as it is not a simple direct system. Funding by a percentage of tax raised is not a terrible idea! It's one of the better methods. Well presently education is highly devolved (states and schools able to set up curriculums) and this law would actually do the opposite. And if there is federal legislation on the matter, it seems to have no effect on decentralized efforts. While we should coordinate activities to set up a network of public schools across Lovia, states should be able to set up curriculums and take charge of the specifics to better suit their needs. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 15:25, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
I detailed my objections on a separate page, as Kunarian suggested. See [[User:Semyon/My objections to the education reform|here]]. :) --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 15:20, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
Devolving education should be a low priority. I agree with Horton, it's much easier to do it directly and have public schools than have grants. And as I said, the grant system gives too much parental choice when it's the student's education. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 20:58, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:I agree with Time in some ways despite my devolutionary tendencies on your first sentence only. And no, it's much easier on us to have a flexible system like the voucher system. Additionally Time you need to read the DHR and read the bit about parents and children and education. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP2wt.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 21:57, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::I haven't read it, but I think I know what it says based on your position. Even so, I disagree. Parents should not have as much control over their children. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 02:40, September 20, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
===Comments===
  +
  +
@Kunarian: Just a small reminder, you've written pounds instead of dollars, don't worry it's the sort of thing I would do :P [[User:Frijoles333|Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara]] ([[User talk:Frijoles333|talk]]) 15:47, September 16, 2013 (UTC)
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:Thanks for notifying, updated to Lovian dollars now :) --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]] 17:12, September 16, 2013 (UTC)
  +
Note to provoters: the current proposal is a breach of the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights. I'd like you to carefully consider some of my points about this bill, and if you agree with me, change your vote until these issues are fixed. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 15:22, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:Corrected, he is referring to another part of law which I must now look at. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP2wt.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 16:15, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::Sorry everyone, I misread some numbers, as Kunarian pointed out. The law does still contradict the part of the UNDHR which states primary education must be free, though. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 16:26, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::I support the bill as long as it ensures that every child in Lovia gets an equal, high quality education [[User:Frijoles333|Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara]] ([[User talk:Frijoles333|talk]]) 16:28, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::::Semyon is right, although I don't think we signed the agreement, it'd be best to keep in line with it. We'll have to move this back to the first chamber. I must say though it is annoying that this was not discussed for the several weeks in which this proposal was being drafted. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP2wt.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 16:38, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
:::::I'd support that, or even better a complete rethink before proposing it. We should get as much ideas from Lovians possible before 1st chambering it. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 16:40, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
::::::Sorry about that Kunarian. I'm aware that I'm less active in the Chambers than I should be. In my defence, I wasn't aware of that clause in the DHR. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 16:43, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
== 022. Repeal education act ==
  +
Let's try this. Repealing the act will give way to the states to fill in education as they want. Congress can still excercise its right to repeal any state laws that are "undesired". We gotta face it, on a national level we're not coming out of this...
  +
  +
50+%
  +
  +
=== Pro ===
  +
* {{pro}} <s>14 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]] 06:10, September 20, 2013 (UTC)</s>
  +
* <strike>{{pro}} 7 votes - however I think it would be better to quickly (before others vote) include a mandate for states to legislate for their own educational systems before a certain date, let's say some time in March so that even the less active states have time to do it and to make up for distraction by federal elections. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP2wt.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 07:20, September 20, 2013 (UTC)</strike> - passed the reform
  +
* {{Pro}} 1 vote I support this, as it gives individual states more power to decide [[User:Frijoles333|Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara]] ([[User talk:Frijoles333|talk]]) 15:57, September 20, 2013 (UTC)
  +
* {{Pro}} 3 votes. That's right, I'm still here, and the 10 minute break thing is absurd. It should be 5 minutes for each hour at school and a minimum of 40 minutes for lunch is more reasonable. --[[User:Quarantine Zone|Quarantine Zone]] ([[User talk:Quarantine Zone|talk]]) 22:13, September 24, 2013 (UTC)
  +
**Well, I wouldn't say it's absurd, it's just that Europeans have different customs for breaks (especially for lunch) than us Americans. We should decide which custom to use without defaulting to either. :P <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 01:18, September 25, 2013 (UTC)
  +
***That's why we need this on state-level :P --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]] 08:47, September 25, 2013 (UTC)
  +
**{{Pro}}<s> 9 votes. I agree with Frijoles on this one, and Kun's idea is great</s>.  '''[[User:Happy65|<font color="Teal"> Happy65 </font>]]''' <sup> '''[[User talk:Happy65|<font color="Aqua"> Talk</font>]] [[Conservative Nationalist Party|CNP]] '''</sup>''' [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px]]''' 06:51, September 26, 2013 (UTC)
  +
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=== Contra ===
  +
*{{Contra}} 8 votes - Keep it centralized. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 10:52, September 20, 2013 (UTC)
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*{{contra}} 5 votes - I don't see the need for this. I think it's a bad idea to use devolution as a compromise in every argument, otherwise people will just get annoyed at the systems in other states. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 14:18, September 20, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
=== Abstain ===
  +
*{{Neutral}}: 1. the law has not prevented states from having full control/say over the education (so see no need to repeal) and 2. We should keep a basic framework of education basics as a guideline for states to follow. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 13:23, September 20, 2013 (UTC)
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*:That's not true, please read the current law and you'll see that practically everything is fixed and it's pretty much impossible to have education in the Oceana language or religious education. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]] 16:25, September 20, 2013 (UTC)
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*:But you can still teach Oceana or religious classes per the current law. That's something we can change (I'd also like to include Bredish in Clymene), but we don't need to repeal both acts. And my commenty was based on experiences in Clymene (and others), where states and individuals are free to create curriculums, organization etc. Apart from this issue our education act provides a lot of freedom. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 17:12, September 20, 2013 (UTC)
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*::My entire goal is to be able to promote the - currently oppressed - Oceana language and religious freedom. The current law needs to be modified at least. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]] 17:29, September 20, 2013 (UTC)
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*{{Abstain}}  4 votes - We just voted for the bill, and I personally see no need for a total repeal. However, I'm also all for additional state freedoms, and taking religion out of school is something I'm personally against. I think it wise to like this play out by itself, and act on what happens after that. [[File:Flag of the Hurian Federation.png|30px|border|link=http://hurian-database.wikia.com/wiki/Hurian_Database_Wiki|The Hurian Database Wiki]] [[User:Vivaporius|Vivaporius]]: <small>"[[User talk:Vivaporius|I don't need a slogan]]"</small> 14:22, September 20, 2013 (UTC)
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*{{Abstention}} 4 votes. We ''just'' passed this act, and now we are already repealing it? That seems rather like a waste of time. Anyway, on the subject of states passing laws, only Sylvania and Oceana have state councils which are in any way active - the other states would likely remain without any legislation at all for some time. Therefore, it is useful to have a federal legislation in place as "back-up", which the individual states could modify slightly for cultural reasons etc. [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 20:46, September 20, 2013 (UTC)
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**I don't think it passed. --[[User:Semyon|Semyon]] 20:52, September 20, 2013 (UTC)
  +
***Yep, it only has 40 or so votes. topaz and Viva, please revise your statements (though staying as abstain is fine). <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 03:22, September 21, 2013 (UTC)
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***So, we're holding these two votes ''at the same time''? That could have strange results, if f.e. both votes end up with 50+ votes. Shouldn't we finalise the other vote before we launch this one? [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 08:27, September 21, 2013 (UTC)
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****I think you're thinking of the wrong Education Act. The acts this vote is referring to are the ones already in the law that were passed years ago, not the ones in the vote above. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 22:08, September 21, 2013 (UTC)
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=== Comments ===
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I left for three days and what to heck even occured. [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 03:40, September 21, 2013 (UTC)
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  +
Whilst I believe that states should have powers to decide what goes on with regards to schools and curriculum within the state, I propose that we keep the LCEs that Kunarian has created, so that Lovia has a qualification that is nationally recognised by employers and higher education institutions. If we did this, states could still choose the curriculum and provide education in regional languages, but students would still leave school with a nationally recognised qualification. Thoughts? [[User:Frijoles333|Frijoles333 / Marcel Cebara]] ([[User talk:Frijoles333|talk]]) 08:06, September 21, 2013 (UTC)
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:There is nothing to ''keep''. The law is not approved.. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]] 08:42, September 21, 2013 (UTC)
  +
  +
== 023. IWO Council ==
  +
  +
1. The IWO Council will be the governing body of the International Wikination Organisation. It will have a Secretrary General as the acting leader and 50 seats divided between several countries.
  +
  +
These countries are:
  +
*Lovia (15 seats)
  +
*Brunant (10 seats)
  +
*Libertas (10 seats)
  +
*Insel Islands (5 seats)
  +
*Maores (5 seats)
  +
*Kemburg (5 seats)
  +
2. The IWO's main headquarters will be in Noble City, however each member nation will have a base. Kemburg's 5 seat allocation will be awarded to Maores if it does not become a member before January 1, 2014. 
  +
  +
3. Elections for both Secretary General and the IWO Council will be held for a whole month, starting on January 1, 2014, and occuring annually. 
  +
  +
'''[[User:Happy65|<font color="Blue"> Happy65 </font>]]''' <sup> '''[[User talk:Happy65|<font color="Aqua"> Talk</font>]] [[Conservative Nationalist Party|CNP]] '''</sup>''' [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px]]''' 17:56, November 8, 2013 (UTC)
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:This looks good, but is there a procedure for new member nations to go through to get representation in the congress? '''[[User:Frijoles333|Frijoles333]]''' [[Marcel Cebara]] [[User talk:Frijoles333|TALK]] 18:41, November 8, 2013 (UTC)
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:On that matter, Kemburg isn't an IWO member yet. [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 23:50, November 8, 2013 (UTC)
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  +
I don't think a council is necessary. A secretary-general is fine. Also, why is this in the Second Chamber? I will move this to the First Chamber if no answer is given by tomorrow. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 23:14, November 8, 2013 (UTC)
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Because it's moved to the Second Chamber now, it's already in the First Chamber. '''[[User:Happy65|<font color="Blue"> Happy65 </font>]]''' <sup> '''[[User talk:Happy65|<font color="Aqua"> Talk</font>]] [[Conservative Nationalist Party|CNP]] '''</sup>''' [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px]]''' 17:00, November 9, 2013 (UTC)
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Please send it back to the first chamber. Plus we also need to look at what the IWO declaration and foundation says about the council that technically exists. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 17:47, November 9, 2013 (UTC)
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'''THIS IS MOVED TO THE FIRST CHAMBER. '''[[User:Happy65|<font color="Blue"> Happy65 </font>]]''' <sup> </sup>'''[[User talk:Happy65|<font color="Aqua"> Talk</font>]] [[Conservative Nationalist Party|CNP]] [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px]]''' 18:19, November 9, 2013 (UTC)'''
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:That doesn't seem to have happened. :P [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 19:40, November 9, 2013 (UTC)
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Anyway, I believe Mäöres should get 10 councillors too. It still holds a large share of semi-active users and is one of the larger wikis. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]] 19:05, November 9, 2013 (UTC)
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==National Reserve Act==
  +
#Creation of the Lovian National Reserves for the cause of
  +
##promotion of sustainable growth;
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##employment of the common public;
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##stable prices
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##preserving the worth of the currency promoted by the Lovian state;
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#In its respectable power it will provide its services and power upon;
  +
##Lovian banks which are part of the National Reserves system.
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###Such banks will provide zero governance over the National Reserves, but may retain the ability to advise the National Reserves on issues concerning such matters of economic importance. 
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###Such responsibility for the National Reserves will be to provide safe transactions between banks, ensuring a safe payment system inside of the Lovian state, maintaing that all Lovians money is treated safely and will review banks actions that may conflict with the economy and the common people.
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###Maintain the ability of setting the discount rates; an intrest rate which the National Reserve may set upon individual banks whom are part of a loaning agreement. 
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###Maintain the ability of setting the reserve requirments; the amount of physical funds that depository institutions are required to hold in reserve against deposits in bank accounts. It determines how much money banks can create through loans and investments.
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##The Lovian Government
  +
###Insure that a secure and legal tender is possible, possessing that the currency supported by the Lovian state is not corrupted.
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####All Lovian coinage and legal tender must be produced inside of the Lovian state under the authority of the National Reserves. 
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###Providing safe keeping of the Lovian governments holdings of collected taxes and state owning in companies.
  +
####Distribution of such holdings of the government too respectable areas requested by the Lovian Congress.  
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###Creation of short-term and long-term interest rates and foreign currency exchange rates.
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###Provide the Lovian Government with loans and bonds to supply itself with funding.
  +
####In return such interests set by the Chairman will be repayed by the government. 
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##The Lovian Economy & Corporations
  +
###While providing such responsibilities in Article (2) under Section (1) of paragraphs (2) and (1) the Lovian National Reserve may investigate if such domestic or international companies or corporations are seekings to manipulate the Lovian economy, spend such money through means of illegal activities or seek to manipulate the National Reserve.
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####If such activities are found in an investigation, the Lovian National Reserve may have the authority to punish such banks that provide loaning or services to said corporations.
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####Punishments may also include the halt of that corporations assets and ownings in Lovia, seizure of such money being traded illegally or being manipulated. 
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#Leadership & Duties
  +
##Selection & removal of Chairman.
  +
###In a majority vote of the Congress of Lovia will a candidate be selected.
  +
###In a tree-fourths vote by the Lovian Congress may a Chairman be removed. 
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##Chairman of the National Reserves will have a life term position, which will remove any threat of being ousted due to public opinion due to short term political interests and may do what is best for the state of Lovia's economy.
  +
##In such authority, the National Reserves will be independent from any external or internal government office, such as an agency or ministry. 
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##Qualifications for Chairman
  +
###Must be a member of the Congress. 
  +
###Must have been a citizen of Lovia for more then one month.
  +
##The Chairman will retain the responsibilities of controlling the National Reserve and its powers, explained in (1) and (2).
  +
###In case of an economic turmoil or discourse, the Chairman of the National Reserve may activate temporary powers to intervene into the Lovian economy and Lovian national budget. 
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One law that I did write while I was here, but never proposed it. Here it goes. [[User:-Sunkist-|-Sunkist-]] ([[User talk:-Sunkist-|talk]]) 08:07, December 9, 2013 (UTC)
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Has this been through the First Chamber? [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 08:18, December 9, 2013 (UTC)
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Yeah a long time ago, nobody cared. I just want to see if it would pass. There was a lot of discussion on it before hand. So just vote on it, if you vote it down, it won't effect me that much. [[User:-Sunkist-|-Sunkist-]] ([[User talk:-Sunkist-|talk]]) 08:22, December 9, 2013 (UTC)
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We should just have a Central Bank. We don't need an extended Federal Reserve System like the U.S. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 16:18, December 9, 2013 (UTC)
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: agreed with horton. but it should have more duscussion in FC [[User:Crystalbeastdeck09|Marcus/Michael]] [[User_Talk:Crystalbeastdeck09|Villanova]] 21:42, December 9, 2013 (UTC)
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== Traspes becoming a full member of the IWO ==
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Ok, this will be the vote for accepting Traspes in the IWO. A vote has also been initiated in Brunant and should be done in the other wikinations soon enough. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 15:37, December 12, 2013 (UTC)
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  +
===Pro===
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* {{pro}} 15 votes. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]]
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* {{Pro}} 4 votes. (Though, there are obviously still aspects which should be expanded etc.) [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 05:47, December 15, 2013 (UTC)
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*{{Pro}} 8 votes. Looks good. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 12:09, December 16, 2013 (UTC)
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===Contra===
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===Abstain===
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*<s>{{abstain}} I'd like more information on Traspes first. Can someone send a link in the comments? <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 02:24, December 13, 2013 (UTC)</s>
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===Comments===
  +
Votes have been initiated in Mäöres and Inselöarna as well. [[User:4kant,6|4kant,6]]<sup>[[User talk:4kant,6|FRÅGOR???]]</sup> 18:20, December 12, 2013 (UTC)
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[[http://es.traspes.wikia.com/ http://es.traspes.wikia.com] Here it is]. The Republic of Traspes is a country in the Atlantic beside Spain, Portugal and Morrocco. Spanish is the offical language. [[User:Traspes|Traspes]] ([[User talk:Traspes|talk]]) 03:31, December 13, 2013 (UTC)
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I'll try to get back to you soon on this. [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP2wt.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 22:20, December 15, 2013 (UTC)
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So.. Should we renew this vote? --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]] 10:34, February 3, 2014 (UTC)
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:I suppose so :P --[[User:4kant,6|Qytokant]]<sup>[[User talk:4kant,6|FRÅGOR???]]</sup> 17:13, February 3, 2014 (UTC)
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::Who wants to do the honors? [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 17:17, February 3, 2014 (UTC)
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::I don't believe 27 votes should be enough for this vote to pass, but if so, I guess we can have the same for Kemburg's vote, right? '''[[User:Happy65|<font color="Blue"> Happy65 </font>]]''' <sup> '''[[User talk:Happy65|<font color="Aqua"> Talk</font>]] [[Conservative Nationalist Party|CNP]] </sup> [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px]]''' 06:41, April 11, 2014 (UTC)
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  +
== Prime Minister Vote ==
  +
Add your candidacies below.
  +
  +
===Oos Wes Ilava===
  +
*9 votes - Backing up Oos - [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP2wt.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 14:45, February 1, 2014 (UTC)
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* 6 votes '''[[User:Happy65|<font color="Blue"> Happy65 </font>]]''' <sup> '''[[User talk:Happy65|<font color="Aqua"> Talk</font>]] [[Conservative Nationalist Party|CNP]] '''</sup>''' [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px]]''' 20:18, January 30, 2014 (UTC)
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*6 votes --[[User:4kant,6|Qytokant]]<sup>[[User talk:4kant,6|FRÅGOR???]]</sup> 10:17, February 2, 2014 (UTC)
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**Happy, you can't just move someone ''else's'' vote, instead of your own. :P [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 21:24, February 3, 2014 (UTC)
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**We agreed that we'd support Oos if he wasn't doing well - and therefore with 4kant's unawareness of the current situation, I decided to move him too. '''[[User:Happy65|<font color="Blue"> Happy65 </font>]]''' <sup> '''[[User talk:Happy65|<font color="Aqua"> Talk</font>]] [[Conservative Nationalist Party|CNP]] '''</sup>''' [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px]]''' 07:45, February 4, 2014 (UTC)
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*18 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]] 14:40, February 5, 2014 (UTC)
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===Justin Abrahams===
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*15 votes. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 14:55, February 1, 2014 (UTC)
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*10 votes '''[[User:Frijoles333|Frijoles333]]''' [[Marcel Cebara]] [[User talk:Frijoles333|TALK]] 16:33, February 1, 2014 (UTC) I think I've now got ten votes?! Anyway, yes I'm supporting Horton for PM
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*9 votes. [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 19:08, February 2, 2014 (UTC) (This is probably the best idea given the circumstances)
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*6 votes. [[File:Flag of the Hurian Federation.png|30px|border|link=http://hurian-database.wikia.com/wiki/Hurian_Database_Wiki|The Hurian Database Wiki]] [[User:Vivaporius|Vivaporius]]: <small>"[[User talk:Vivaporius|I don't need a slogan]]"</small> 22:23, February 3, 2014 (UTC)
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Whan should we end the vote, cause we do need a limit. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 12:38, February 3, 2014 (UTC)
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When someone gets either 50 votes, or if nobody has voted in 3 days (or changed votes). '''[[User:Happy65|<font color="Blue"> Happy65 </font>]]''' <sup> '''[[User talk:Happy65|<font color="Aqua"> Talk</font>]] [[Conservative Nationalist Party|CNP]] '''</sup>''' [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px]]''' 18:08, February 3, 2014 (UTC)
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Horton, in the mean time, I would recommend that you start making a government to propose. <small>—[[User:TimeMaster|TimeMaster]] ([[User talk:TimeMaster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TimeMaster|contribs]])</small> 00:17, February 4, 2014 (UTC)
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Probably I can't vote but I just want to say Oos has my support. [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] ([[User talk:Wabba The I|talk]]) 15:44, February 7, 2014 (UTC)
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I suppose Jhon Lewis could send some angels from heaven to convince the MOTCs that they should vote for Oos :P --[[User:4kant,6|Qytokant]]<sup>[[User talk:4kant,6|FRÅGOR???]]</sup> 17:06, February 7, 2014 (UTC)
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Let's give this vote 1 more hour. Justin Abrahams is currently leading by 1 vote (that could change). '''[[User:Happy65|<font color="Blue"> Happy65 </font>]]''' <sup> '''[[User talk:Happy65|<font color="Aqua"> Talk</font>]] [[Conservative Nationalist Party|CNP]] '''</sup>''' [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px]]''' 17:30, February 7, 2014 (UTC)
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: Sufficient time has passed so we should end the vote. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 18:30, February 7, 2014 (UTC)
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::The last vote was 5 February. So, not sufficient time has passed. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]] 11:52, February 8, 2014 (UTC)
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::I think that's enough voting. 8 days seems long enough (longest ever in Lovian history). Sufficient time has passed. '''[[User:Happy65|<font color="Blue"> Happy65 </font>]]''' <sup> '''[[User talk:Happy65|<font color="Aqua"> Talk</font>]] [[Conservative Nationalist Party|CNP]] </sup> [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px]]''' 13:02, February 8, 2014 (UTC)
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== 027. Abrahams I government ==
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*[[Prime Minister]]: Justin Abrahams
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*[[Ministry of Agriculture]]: Rakham Tarik Al-Asmari
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*[[Ministry of Commerce]]: Lukas Hoffmann
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*[[Ministry of Culture]]: Oos Wes Ilava
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*[[Ministry of Defense]]: Lukas Hoffmann
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*[[Ministry of Education]]: Marcel Cebara
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*[[Ministry of Energy and Resources]]: Charles Alexander Bennett
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*[[Ministry of Environment]]: Nicholas Sheraldin
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*[[Ministry of Family, Youth, and Elderly]]: Oos Wes Ilava
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*[[Ministry of Finance]]: Bart Koenen
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*[[Ministry of Foreign Affairs]]: Nicholas Sheraldin
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*[[Ministry of Health]]: Justin Abrahams
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*[[Ministry of Justice]]: Charles Jones
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*[[Ministry of Labour]]: Marcel Cebara
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*[[Ministry of Tourism and Sport]]: Alexei Krasnov
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*[[Ministry of Transportation]]: Alexei Krasnov
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*[[Speaker of the Congress]]: Nicholas Sheraldin
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===For===
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*{{Pro}} 15 votes. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 18:51, February 7, 2014 (UTC)
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*{{Pro}} 6 votes. '''[[User:Happy65|<font color="Blue"> Happy65 </font>]]''' <sup> '''[[User talk:Happy65|<font color="Aqua"> Talk</font>]] [[Conservative Nationalist Party|CNP]] </sup> [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px]]''' 19:09, February 7, 2014 (UTC)
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*{{Pro}} 9 votes. This seems reasonable. Though, the actual characters (as opposed to the users) wouldn't occupy more than one ministerial post at once, so maybe that should be clarified. [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 21:27, February 7, 2014 (UTC)
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*{{Pro}} 10 votes Looks good! Here's to getting stuff done in 2014 :) '''[[User:Frijoles333|Frijoles333]]''' [[Marcel Cebara]] [[User talk:Frijoles333|TALK]] 12:27, February 8, 2014 (UTC)
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*{{Pro}} 6 votes. Not much to complain about :P --[[User:4kant,6|Qytokant]]<sup>[[User talk:4kant,6|FRÅGOR???]]</sup> 08:44, February 9, 2014 (UTC)
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*{{pro}} 18 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]] 09:52, February 9, 2014 (UTC)
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===Abstention===
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*
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===Against===
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===Comments===
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Note to all, if you character appears twice you can replace one post with another one. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 21:34, February 7, 2014 (UTC)
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I'd like to point out Sheraldin has 3 ministries (counting Speaker), and Martijn has 0. Martijn isn't the most active user though, so I don't think people will mind. It's up to you, Horton. '''[[User:Happy65|<font color="Blue"> Happy65 </font>]]''' <sup> '''[[User talk:Happy65|<font color="Aqua"> Talk</font>]] [[Conservative Nationalist Party|CNP]] '''</sup>''' [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px]]''' 09:00, February 8, 2014 (UTC)
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Technically speaking, [[Speaker of the Congress]] isn't a ministry anyway (and obviously only one of those posts would actually be occupied by [[Nicholas Sheraldin]]). And Martijn almost never voted in the Second Chamber or anything - [[Special:Contributions/MartijnM|most of his edits]] in the last twelve months were just on elections - so that shouldn't really be a problem. [[User:77topaz|77topaz]] ([[User talk:77topaz|talk]]) 10:13, February 8, 2014 (UTC)
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: Speaker does not carry any added particular benefits and it isn't a ministry. And I went with Bart for that other CCPL vote, though truthfully I don't see him being active. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 13:51, February 8, 2014 (UTC)
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::Sorry I missed this. I've been held-up a lot recently, glad to have the departments though. :) [[Lukas Hoffmann|Hoffmann]] [[File:LogoCNP2wt.png|20px|link=Conservative Nationalist Party]] <small>[[User:Kunarian|Kunarian]]</small>'''[[User talk:Kunarian|TALK]]''' 14:08, February 11, 2014 (UTC)
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{{Accepted}} This proposal is accepted with 64% of the vote. [[User:Horton11|<small>HORTON11</small>]]: [[File:Email_icon.jpg|25px|link=User_talk:horton11|Inbox]] • [[File:follow_me.PNG|30px|link=Special:Contributions/horton11|Follow me!]] 14:22, February 9, 2014 (UTC)
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== Kemburg joining the IWO ==
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If this vote is passed, [[w:c:kemburg:Kemburg|Kemburg]] shall become a '''full member '''of the International Wiki Organisation.
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===For===
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*{{Pro}} 6 votes '''[[User:Happy65|<font color="Blue"> Happy65 </font>]]''' <sup> '''[[User talk:Happy65|<font color="Aqua"> Talk</font>]] [[Conservative Nationalist Party|CNP]] '''</sup>''' [[File:LogoCNP.png|20px]]''' 18:09, April 10, 2014 (UTC)
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*{{Pro}} 10 votes, or however many I have now '''[[User:Frijoles333|Frijoles333]]''' [[User talk:Frijoles333|TALK]] 18:10, April 10, 2014 (UTC)
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*{{Pro}} 6 votes --[[User:4kant,6|Qytokant]]<sup>[[User talk:4kant,6|FRÅGOR???]]</sup> 05:34, April 11, 2014 (UTC)
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*{{Pro}} 18 votes. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|O<u>u</u>WTB]] 17:11, April 11, 2014 (UTC)
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===Against===
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*I don't can vote, however, I don't support this. [[User:Wabba The I|Wabba The I]] ([[User talk:Wabba The I|talk]]) 15:25, April 11, 2014 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 17:11, April 11, 2014

Seal of the Second Chamber
Seal of the Second Chamber
DimiTalenAdded by DimiTalen
National Archives of the Congressional debates and votes:
1. First series
2. Second series
3. Third series
4. Fourth series
5. Fifth series
6. Sixth series
7. Seventh series
8. Eighth series
9. Ninth series
10. Tenth series
11. Eleventh series
12. Twelfth series
13. Thirteenth series
14. Fourteenth series

In Lovia, Congress is the national legislative body and the most powerful branch of government. The Second Chamber is one of the two chambers of Congress, located in the Capitol in Downtown Noble City, in which the Members of the Congress vote bills that originated in the First Chamber. Paradoxically, Lovia does not have a bicameral parliament: there is only one group of MOTCs that both debates and votes the proposals. For the current composition of Congress, see 2013 Congress.

Whereas all national citizens may propose bills in the First Chamber, only Members of the Congress may vote them in the Second Chamber. Article 6 of the Constitution states that "all Members of the Congress are expected to vote on the motion in the Second Chamber". They have three legal voting options: "pro (in favor of the motion), contra (in opposition to the motion) and abstention (the wish not to vote)." Further more, they "have two weeks’ time to cast their vote in the Second Chamber. Voting may be closed earlier if the required majority is reached. The proposer may also choose to lengthen the voting period."

A normal majority ("fifty percent of the valid votes") is required to pass a motion amending the Federal Law. To vote on Constitutional amendments, a special majority ("more than two thirds of the valid votes") is required to pass a amendment. The special majority requirement was lowered from three quarters to two thirds in the 2010 State Reform (Sixth Amendment). All proposals approved by Congress, by the required majority and in due time, must be implemented by the government of Lovia.


001. GovernmentEdit

I propose the following Government, Government Oos Wes Ilava II:

VotingEdit

Congress Voting Options
  • {{pro}} resulting in: Pro Pro
  • {{contra}} gives: Contra Contra
  • {{abstention}} gives: Abstention Abstention

ProEdit

  • Pro Pro 13 votes. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 07:54, February 7, 2013 (UTC) (CCPL - OSB)
  • Pro Pro 4 votes. 77topaz (talk) 08:31, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
  • Pro Pro 8 votes. But we should have the people with two posts use another character for their second post. I'll probably keep Galahad on Finance like last year. TimeMaster (talkcontribs) 12:01, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
  • Pro Pro 7 votes. fantastic stuff, here's to a new year of success Hoffmann LogoCNP KunarianTALK 12:22, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
  • Pro Pro 4 votes. Wabba The I (talk) 17:22, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
  • Pro Pro 3 votes. Fantastic. --Quarantine Zone (talk) 17:56, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
  • Pro Pro 5 votes. OK, I'll support this. --Semyon 18:53, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
  • Pro Pro 6 votes (Read comments made by Hoffmann, totally correct. The users, and while I'm against QZ as health minister (i'm proud hes active), are inactive and wouldn't be able to fufill there jobs) Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:49, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
  • Pro Pro 2 votes. Daembrales (talk) 23:00, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
  • Pro Pro 5 votes. -Sunkist- (talk) 00:08, February 8, 2013 (UTC)
  • Pro Pro 9 votes Happy65 Talk CNP LogoCNP 07:12, February 8, 2013 (UTC)

ContraEdit

AbstainEdit

  • Abstention Abstention 1 vote. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 07:54, February 7, 2013 (UTC) (RTP)
  • Abstention Abstention 5 votes. Horton is right. --Semyon 19:01, February 7, 2013 (UTC)
  • Abstention Abstention 2 votes .Granero (talk) 01:06, February 8, 2013 (UTC)
  • ...

Accepted This proposal is accepted! The Ilava II Government is now in power. :D TimeMaster (talkcontribs) 00:22, February 8, 2013 (UTC)

Comments Edit

Users like Granero and Daembrales have all shown interest in having a ministry position, so we should include them. HORTON11: Email iconFollow me 13:27, February 7, 2013 (UTC)

To a degree I do agree however I think that the lack of year round activity and lack of a well developed position known to the citizens of the wikia makes it hard for us to confidently include them. I think a good idea would be to have a reshuffle of the government in maybe 3, 4 or 6 months and review the positions that they have shown interest in and see if they: a) are active enough to assume positions and b) have shown attempts to develop that area of interest in lovia. Personally I think a review in three months would be good and would hardly be unfair. We address concerns